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Post by min on Oct 1, 2017 11:58:46 GMT
I completely buy into Dany hidden and raised in brothels as a child and learning old valyrian in Tyrosh. When and how does she learn the common tongue and when does Viserys really enter the picture?
I could even get behind the face changing and memory confusion that would create. It might even explain the number of trips to Braavos to change up the disguise as she gets older. That degree of subterfuge implies something about Dany's importance beyond the bride price for Khal Drogo and somebody knows it.
What is the connection between Quaithe who wears a red wooden mask and the KotLT whose charge is a tree with a red face painted on his wooden shield?
I'm not sure about the breeding program though. Having sex with 'the last Targaryen' sounds very similar to Bella and her claims about being Robert's bastard.
Although claiming Dany is Viserys sister to wed her to Drogo could be subterfuge. She may have all the Tarygaryen markers but how does she look like Ashara Dayne?
Recently, GRRM said that Dany only had 1/10 Targaryen blood or I read it somewhere.
Who was the hand of the king who built the secret tunnel to the brothel?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 1, 2017 12:33:07 GMT
GRRM said that Dany only had 1/10 Targaryen blood or I read it somewhere. ooohhhhwwwwhat???
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Post by min on Oct 1, 2017 13:17:28 GMT
GRRM said that Dany only had 1/10 Targaryen blood or I read it somewhere. ooohhhhwwwwhat??? I read something to that affect on Westeros somewhere recently. It was a recent thread, I can't remember which one. Sorry can't find it. I remember thinking that epic and what does that mean for Robert whose grandmother was Targ. But perhaps I read it wrong or remember it wrong. If I come across it again, I'll point it out.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 1, 2017 14:59:15 GMT
A few "red light" book finds:
First one from AGoT which really caught my eye because of the proximity to underground, tunnels, as well as Lyanna. Coincidental? Is he entering a brothel?
And here, Dany heads to her tent after Viserys becomes a walker. If that's not a metaphor...
I never noticed this before but Dragonstone has red doors.
Light filtering through weirwood leaves is often described as red light, as is the light/color of the Comet. Too many examples of those to sort through right now.
This is interesting. When Jon first meets Mance, there is reddish light, a pregnant woman, Mance with his scraps of red silk singing about the Dornishman's wife.
One of Bran's wolf dreams
Barra the virgin whore has light red hair. heh.
Selhorys (sell-whores? heh) is where the Shy Maid - heh - stops, and Tyrion meets with the customs official Qavo in an inn lit with hundreds of red candles, Qavo talks about a rumor that Dany has insatiable lust and that she "gives her body to men to take their souls in thrall" which is the exact same rumor about the Night King's Queen. Qavo deals in the trafficking of goods and people. Also there's a huge turtle over the door. More heh.
Tyrion and Jorah end up in a Selhorys brothel. Jorah hires the young slim Silver-Haired Whore, who Tyrion guesses is from Lys.
Quick note that Melisandre's rubies shine with a red light that is associated with glamours. We can confidently tie in brothels and hidden identities?
I've got to dig more on this one, but in The Spurned Suitor, Quentyn runs across a red lantern while on his way to speak with the Tattered Prince, bringing us full circle back to Mance in his tattered robe I suppose. More underground/tunnels for good measure.
And the candles in the HoBaW are said to burn with a reddish light.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 1, 2017 15:18:29 GMT
Although claiming Dany is Viserys sister to wed her to Drogo could be subterfuge. She may have all the Tarygaryen markers but how does she look like Ashara Dayne? This is where I struggle and where I really need to sit down with a wall chart and some string to plot this out. LOL Dany has the connection to brothels, as does Lyanna. Ashara does not, as far as I can tell. Dany has some Stark-y things going on, but it seems pretty clear that she is far more fire than she is ice, and that means Targaryen/Valyrian. And, she looks like Ashara per Barristan, and Ashara had a stillborn daughter. But, evidence and symbolism suggest that Ashara and Lyanna also have a connection. In addition to a subtle association with prostitution, Lyanna also has very strong religious symbolism around her, with the white dress and crown of thorns, etc - So my mind is going to a version of "Madonna/Whore" complex and the story of Mary Magdelene, who may or may not have been a prostitute but was most certainly a follower of Jesus, and was present for his resurrection. However, to make the problem even more "thorny", so to speak, it must be noted that "Magdalene" means "from Magdala", which was a coastal town on the Sea of Galilee - and "Magdala" derives from the Hebrew word migdal meaning 'tower' or 'fortress', and in Aramaic magdala also means 'tower', 'elevated, great, or magnificent'. Obviously all of those things apply more to the tall and fair Ashara Dayne, from Starfall by the sea, who jumped from her tower of the Palestone Sword at the end of the war. Put all this together and.....I have no idea. Since we are talking about two maidens, sisterhood, and face-swapping here, I'm now wondering if something else more sinister was going on. I hinted at Ashara's darkness in the FD essay, and go further into that in the unposted Sisterhood of Trees essay too - nutshell, the signs point to Ashara Dayne being a witch/sorceress, and I'm pondering on the possibility that she somehow literally and physically traded bodies with Lyanna.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 1, 2017 15:34:59 GMT
Quick note that Melisandre's rubies shine with a red light that is associated with glamours. We can confidently tie in brothels and hidden identities? Ahhh, yes....so we have rubies associated with glamours and Targaryens, and the color red associated with brothels, worshippers of Ralloo, and glamours. Melisandre is capable of casting a glamour on someone's face, as we see with Mance and Rattleshirt. "Mance" is given to the flames for his treason. This brings me to the TOJ and blood magic - Mirri Mas Duur was at Drogo's tent, the parallel to TOJ, and was a shadowbinder performing a 'resurrection' ceremony of sorts for the pregnant wife of a fallen 'king'. Melisandre, of course, is a shadowbinder as well as a worshipper of Ralloo. Quaithe is also a shadowbinder, who wears a red lacquer mask and tells Dany to remember who she is. Ned returns Lyanna's bones to Winterfell and buries her in the crypts, and the bones remember. What the hell happened in that tent?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 1, 2017 15:53:02 GMT
Another random thought: the big house with the red door and the lemon tree outside the window.
Illyrio lives in the huge manse along with his servants and his bedwarmers - courtesans that he willingly shares with distinguished guests, as we see with Viserys and Tyrion. The manse has a considerable garden outside, and Tyrion notes 6 cherry trees growing in it.
Cherries and lemons are sortof a parallel inversion too. Delicious, but often quite tart. Lemons represent sourness of situation and bad luck - "when life hands you lemons", etc. Cherries represent sweetness and good fortune - "life is a bowl full of cherries". Lemons have clear juice that leaves no traces when spilled, the juice of cherries stains things red. (Remember the "stigma"/"stigmata"/"stain" from the Fisherman's Daughter?")
Anyway, the presence of fruit trees in the courtyard of a big manse in Pentos that happens to also house glorified prostitutes is a pretty big damn hint here.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 1, 2017 16:38:36 GMT
Cherries represent sweetness and good fortune ...and virginity. Because, crudely, of the breaking of the hymen and blood associated with that. If Illyrio brokers in virgins, like he did with Dany, makes total sense. Question would be how often has he done this before.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 1, 2017 16:47:40 GMT
ooh, forgot about that...nice. I am now reading about Tyrosh, and think this needs to be worked in somehow - particularly since the Tyroshi are so heavily involved in the slave trade. ETA: Resurrecting the Smiling Knight/Blackfyre possibility, this could tie into things somehow - people paying handsomely to bed the last true Targaryen, etc.
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Post by min on Oct 2, 2017 11:43:03 GMT
Robert Baratheon had always been a man of huge appetites, a man who knew how to take his pleasures. That was not a charge anyone could lay at the door of Eddard Stark. Yet Ned could not help but notice that those pleasures were taking a toll on the king. Robert was breathing heavily by the time they reached the bottom of the stairs, his face red in the lantern light as they stepped out into the darkness of the crypt. This passage has me wondering about the KoLT and he association with red faces and more particularly the weirwood at Winterfell: The tree at Winterfell is described twice as red-faced along with the shield of the KotLT. So I think a Bran/Howland connection makes some sense. The red-faced fat man having a jolly old time - well, he's the dionysian archetype and Santa rolled into one. The colors of winter are red and green (enter Patchface - ho, ho, ho, I know, I know). So are we talking about blood of the greenwood? Newborns 'stink' of life and come into the world red-faced and squalling. Robert's nature: awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Garth_Greenhand
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 2, 2017 15:06:18 GMT
Remember what else can see through disguises? Animals. Like cats, or direwolves, or..."The dragons know. Do you?"
What if Rhaegar succeeded and Dany is Rhaegar.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 2, 2017 15:22:10 GMT
Remember what else can see through disguises? Animals. Like cats, or direwolves, or..."The dragons know. Do you?"
What if Rhaegar succeeded and Dany is Rhaegar. And is ashara the pregnant "queen" whose stillborn baby was given life via soul transfer of her dead lover? Rhaego was unwittingly sacrificed for Drogo, but his soul traded places with an unhatched dragon. Rhaego born dead but the dragon lived. What if the dragon died but the unborn baby got the soul and lived.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 2, 2017 15:24:05 GMT
What if the dragon died but the unborn baby got the soul and lived. Sandwiches.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 2, 2017 15:30:23 GMT
Now how to bring in Lyanna...I'm suspecting something to do with skin changing but not sure. She has a part in this though, with the TOJ.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 2, 2017 15:46:43 GMT
Now how to bring in Lyanna...I'm suspecting something to do with skin changing but not sure. She has a part in this though, with the TOJ. After numerous experiments, they realized they needed skinchanger/warg blood to succeed. Is this the clue from MMR's tent? One scenario... Jon's father is Dany? That's the twist. Sex change the father. The sphinx is the riddle. Child of three. Trying to fit this together but DUDE. We might have it. Could be something like Lyanna's "egg" so to speak is her fetus, Ashara's got one too, Rhaegar has dragon's eggs - the ToJ was a hatchery, not a love nest. ETA Dany is having Rhaegar's memories.Working on exact mirror of MMRs tent.
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