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Post by min on Oct 18, 2016 15:44:33 GMT
If Ford knew that Arnold was 'very, very carefull'; perhaps Arnold staged his own death. The MiB can't be harmed at all. Not even a bruise.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 18, 2016 15:59:39 GMT
discoverwestworld.com/#Where there is a box to enter your email address, click on Terms of Delos Destinations Whether or not the gun fighting hurts or kills a guest or a host has to do with "bullet velocity" - so the same gun that "kills" a host would only bounce off a guest, I'm imagining. The MiB obviously is safe, as are guests, but what about the mob of Sandpeople that attack Teddy? Are they hosts who have they messed around with their settings so Teddy's gun can't hurt them, or are they rogue guests?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 18, 2016 16:05:58 GMT
Attn all: this is officially a Spoiler thread for Episodes 1-3 only. After this, there will be separate threads for each episode, the same way we structure GoT.
A new non-spoiler thread will be created later when I have some time to sort out the posts that can be moved there.
Spoiler tags are no longer necessary in this thread, but please don't remove existing spoiler tags until I've set up the non-spoiler thread.
thanks all
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 18, 2016 17:11:44 GMT
Rogue guest. Now that's an interesting proposition. $40,000 per day to be at that park. That's quite a sum and one only a few could afford, but would someone that didn't have a pressing need to return to work (trust fund kid) go rogue and just decide to stay? I can see the entertainment value for someone that could be labled "idle rich".
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Post by ac on Oct 18, 2016 18:58:57 GMT
Rogue guest. Now that's an interesting proposition. $40,000 per day to be at that park. That's quite a sum and one only a few could afford, but would someone that didn't have a pressing need to return to work (trust fund kid) go rogue and just decide to stay? I can see the entertainment value for someone that could be labled "idle rich". And of course we don't know how far in the future the show is set - except that it is still the 21st century. It wouldn't be too big a stretch to think it is 50 years in the future where $40k would be equivalent to about $5k today. Still a lot of money, but there's a big difference in affordability between $1.8m / year and $14.6m / year.
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Post by Melifeather on Oct 18, 2016 19:19:24 GMT
Rogue guest. Now that's an interesting proposition. $40,000 per day to be at that park. That's quite a sum and one only a few could afford, but would someone that didn't have a pressing need to return to work (trust fund kid) go rogue and just decide to stay? I can see the entertainment value for someone that could be labled "idle rich". And of course we don't know how far in the future the show is set - except that it is still the 21st century. It wouldn't be too big a stretch to think it is 50 years in the future where $40k would be equivalent to about $5k today. Still a lot of money, but there's a big difference in affordability between $1.8m / year and $14.6m / year. I suppose, and would a criminal element find a monetary value to creating a gang? If the guests are rich, the criminals could hide in plain site as a host gang...at least for a little while. Did Ford set up any kind of policing or security?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Oct 18, 2016 19:19:52 GMT
I don't think those are rogue guests. They're mistakes within the narrative, exactly what Bernard was talking about with Dolores. The mistakes are what allow evolution. Ford's alternate suggestion about the bicameral mind is that it's insanity. Yet he rewrites Teddy's narrative, the host that thinks he's a guest, into one that involves Wyatt, a host that believes he's a god because he's become conscious of the voices in his head. Ford is indeed recreating the theory of the caveman's evolutionary process. No one but Ford programmed that narrative. Either Ford is continuing Arnold's work, or he's on mission of vengeance against the 'board'. He's purposely introducing insanity.
Bernard however is doing his own thing here, I think. Ford tells him the kindest thing they can do for the hosts is allow them to forget. So what does Bernard do? Not allow Dolores to forget. I think he's trying to throw a spanner in Ford's work. Bernard's wife asks him if he could forget about his son, would he? He answers no because the pain of it is what keeps his son there with him. In other words, it's the pain that grounds him in reality. By allowing Dolores to remember he's allowing her to define her own reality.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 18, 2016 19:45:43 GMT
Bernard however is doing his own thing here, I think. Ford tells him the kindest thing they can do for the hosts is allow them to forget. So what does Bernard do? Not allow Dolores to forget. I think he's trying to throw a spanner in Ford's work. Bernard's wife asks him if he could forget about his son, would he? He answers no because the pain of it is what keeps his son there with him. In other words, it's the pain that grounds him in reality. And speaking of Bernard, there's the idea that HE is in fact a host, and that Ford created his narrative of the deceased son as his cornerstone, same as he did for Teddy with Wyatt. The timing seems to be suspicious in that Ford first mentions the son in convo with Bernard, then next we get the info dump and flashbacks from Bernard himself...same as with Teddy and Wyatt, Teddy gets the "Origin Install" and voila, we hear Teddy backstory. Are those real memories, or did Ford create a backstory for Bernard at that particular time? If so, what is the purpose of needing Bernard to have a dead child at that time? If Bernard and his son are both real, though, we could connect to the incident from 30 years ago that apparently created the MiB and also resulted in the death of founder Arnold. Arnold also suffered 'a great personal tragedy' that Ford believes led him to suicide. Are these things connected? Could Arnold be the one who lost his son/have this in common with Bernard? If Arnold was trying to create higher consciousness in the hosts, and now Bernard is picking up that baton, is the end game to recreate a human being that never has to die? If the prize at the center of the maze is eternal life, perhaps a reunion with a sentient son would be the carrot to dangle in front of Bernard's nose - but the MiB and Bernard have to be successful with their respective parts of the quest at the same time for this to work. I sound like a crazy person.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 18, 2016 20:24:49 GMT
Non-spoiler thread has been set up. Continue as usual here!
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 18, 2016 22:40:52 GMT
Could Arnold be the one who lost his son/have this in common with Bernard? If Arnold was trying to create higher consciousness in the hosts, and now Bernard is picking up that baton, is the end game to recreate a human being that never has to die? Remember the boy in the desert? Pretty obvious to me the child is a host (pretending to be a guest!) , and I originally thought it was a clue in another direction. But that whole scene is bizarro. Unless it was simply bad writing for the sake of exposition - which it could be, what do I know - the fact that this boy was the sounding box for Ford's speech means something. Backtracking to creepier stuff, I'm guessing it's pretty obvious to everyone by now that Dolores's role in the park is to be the easily overtaken victim, for those guests who are into violent delights. The guest who Teddy scares off nails it - he "asked for an easy one." Later, that same guest is pretty psyched to see her again at the ranch, with her father dead and Teddy off on his new story arc. So... it's understandable that Ford believes it's "kinder" to erase their memories. If every day of Dolores's "life" for decades ended up in the barn, where we pretty much know what happens? Horrible. The host that she kills - the one that flickers to become the MiB - is programmed to take her into the barn. To set the stage for any guests who are nearby? Nightmare fuel. Because of the merging flashbacks, I'm guessing she has escaped the barn before, but the more interesting part is the MiB approaching her with a knife. Was she once scalped? Was he trying to reach something, sort of the way Stubbs works on decapitating the Stray?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Oct 19, 2016 3:16:25 GMT
The host that she kills - the one that flickers to become the MiB - is programmed to take her into the barn. Rebus is apparently experiencing some past recollection too - when she encounters him in the streets earlier in the ep and he bucks up to her/Teddy before the guest chickens out, he says something like "maybe later you can take us for a little hayride"...you know, the hay in the barn where she's destined to be raped night after night? So sounds like he's glitching on parts of his narrative as well. Rebus and his milk-drinker buddy Walter are the "tour guides" for those easy pickins, like you said - but I don't think the MiB has been part of the fun until now. I'm now thinking that the insertion of the MiB into Dolores' daily loop is a recent phenomenon and not something that's a typical part of that arc, where the MiB shows up to pick off her abusers and shoot her boyfriend before dragging her off for his own pleasure. Still not sure if the MiB has just been trojaned into the game (if he's a host) or if he just showed up at the most convenient of times (if he's human) but he ACTS like a virus or rogue program...running in the background doing nefarious things that undermine the OS. In E1, before shooting Teddy and dragging Dolores off by the hair, he tells her that he WANTS her to fight, that he pays big money for her to put up a fight, and that "it's good to be back" - so that at face value indicates that he's human and a newcomer, but then if you think about it, it also smacks of a dormant program that's using Dolores as a cover. On the other hand, Stubbs flat out says that the MiB is to be left alone and can do what he wants, which means the programmers obviously know of his existence, so he certainly could be a real person that gets special treatment, or he could be a line of code that they've been told to ignore. Just like the comment of how a single line of code prevents the hosts from tearing everyone apart. Anyway, digressing a bit. The point is, whatever the MiB might be, he is not standard protocol for anyone's narrative, and his renewed presence is recent. Interesting that he shows up to start scalp-collecting right about the time that Ford executed his "reveries", too. On that note I was also musing about Ford and the odd contradiction we get with his deliberate intention of keeping the hosts without consciousness, dream, memory, but then he introduces those "reveries" and "mistakes" and all this other crap that makes them more human/helps them evolve, takes his little walkabouts to the steeple in the desert, etc. Then we get the Arnold history, what with wanting to give them sentience /introduce the bicameral mind/have them hear the voice of God. Is it just me, or does Ford seem oddly unconcerned that several of the hosts are currently accessing "fragments of Arnold's code"?? Code that totally negates the consistent lifelessness that Ford claims to want to continue? "Arnold built a version in which the hosts heard their programming as an inner monologue, with the hopes that in time, their inner voice would take over." Tack this on to Ford's new build for Teddy, this bitter rivalry between two former friends/soldiers that formed after one of them lost his shit, started hearing the voice of God, then began murdering people and crafting skin suits out of them, in a nice little nod to the good Dr. Lecter and Jame 'Buffalo Bill" Gumb. (IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!!! lol) Since according to Ford all the backstories are "fiction rooted in truth", it seems to me that the Teddy/Wyatt conflict has more than a little in common with a Robert Ford/Arnold situation than we're told...perhaps not such a friendly competition as Ford led Bernard to believe. I'm wondering if perhaps Ford was the one that was hearing the voice of God, and Arnold took the fall for it - and Ford is casually blowing smoke up everyone's asses while he works toward his longtime ultimate achievement of becoming God to a population of newly sentient beings. Ford claims that by keeping the hosts devoid of humanity he is doing them a kindness....but really, if you think about it, it is suffering that drives people to worship a god. If Ford wants to play God, he has to drastically change their worldview first by making them both need and want one. /rambling
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 19, 2016 5:48:51 GMT
I'm wondering if perhaps Ford was the one that was hearing the voice of God, and Arnold took the fall for it - and Ford is casually blowing smoke up everyone's asses while he works toward his longtime ultimate achievement of becoming God to a population of newly sentient beings. Or is Ford actually Arnold? I caught some more of the exchange between Ford and the Boy. Ford says "Can't you see it? The town with the church with the white steeple? Can't you hear the bells?" And the Boy gets a wonderstruck look like Opie at the Carnival and agrees he can hear it. Then Ford says "I thought you would." So, the power of suggestion/words unlocked a code/narrative. Strangely Ford then tells the Boy not to come back to that area, so Boy drops his walking stick and walks away with a blank face. Anyway, you're onto something, because what Ford says and what he does are two different things. If Arnold or Ford wanted a model for a test host... why not themselves? And as the host concierge says to William, if you can't tell, does it matter?
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Post by ac on Oct 19, 2016 13:17:30 GMT
Or is Ford actually Arnold? This had crossed my mind too but then again surely "the board" would know the two of them. I'd be more inclined to thinking, like Some Pig No Doubt suggested, that Ford was lying to Bernard about the respective motivations of Arnold and himself. One alternative is that Ford is not lying about how he felt 30 years ago but at some point since then, or maybe just over time, his views changed to be more aligned with Arnold's. If I had to guess right now I'd say the the Boy was Arnold's attempt to recreate his dead son (who presumably Ford would have known quite well).
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Post by Weasel Pie on Oct 19, 2016 13:31:58 GMT
If I had to guess right now I'd say the the Boy was Arnold's attempt to recreate his dead son (who presumably Ford would have known quite well). Seems completely illogical for them not to model some hosts after their own lost loved ones and other "real" people. Makes you wonder what Bernard is thinking (about his own dead son).
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Post by min on Oct 19, 2016 13:32:37 GMT
Or is Ford actually Arnold? This had crossed my mind too but then again surely "the board" would know the two of them. I'd be more inclined to thinking, like Some Pig No Doubt suggested, that Ford was lying to Bernard about the respective motivations of Arnold and himself. One alternative is that Ford is not lying about how he felt 30 years ago but at some point since then, or maybe just over time, his views changed to be more aligned with Arnold's. If I had to guess right now I'd say the the Boy was Arnold's attempt to recreate his dead son (who presumably Ford would have known quite well). I find it curious that we haven't seen any children who are 'guests' with the exception of Episode 1 when the family talks to Delores while she is painting. The boy asks her if she is 'real'? She advises them not to go any further into the countryside because it becomes more dangerous. I wondered if the boy was actually real himself. I don't imagine that children are actually allowed in this particular theme park at all.
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