Also, keep in mind GRRM's love for Lady Stoneheart and how upset he was that she was cut from the show. And what is Lady Stoneheart's ultimate purpose? To get revenge on those who killed her family.
Vengeful revenants be important, people.
If you follow the logical conclusion of the story arcs GRRM created early on for Cat and Jon, then we should expect there to be a confrontation between the two over Winterfell. UnJon vs Lady Stoneheart. And while it currently seems unlikely that Cat will leave the Riverlands, if she exacts her revenge on the Freys, I expect her to turn her sights back north next. Which may be why she continues to fondle her son's northern crown.
we should expect there to be a confrontation between the two over Winterfell
I like this angle. Perhaps apply to Lyanna and the Rebellion against the Throne? If LS is turning north to confront UnJon, the inverse would be Lyanna turning south...to Dorne...to confront something else undead/resurrected. Like something born in fire.
A Dance with Dragons - Bran III Bran's throat was very dry. He swallowed. "Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He's not dead, he's not, I saw him, he's back at Winterfell, he's still alive." "No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."
I have always loved this passage and have wondered from the start about its significance. Did someone try before? Is this why Leaf gives the warning? Is it even possible? What happens if they succeed?
Leaf warns Bran not to go there, but we HAVE seen this succeed already - Thoros manages to resurrect Beric a whopping 6 times, and then Beric pays it forward by giving lucky #7 to Catelyn. I find it interesting that this happens in the Riverlands, and have seen it speculated that perhaps R'hllor wasn't the god responsible for Thoros' sudden skills - there may have been another old power at work instead. Lyanna also went missing in the Riverlands - and as yet, no one knows what she was doing there. Was Lyanna perhaps on her own quest to call someone back from death, this time giving credit to the proper god? Or, could she have been lured to her fate with the temptation of seeing a loved one again, a loved one she thought dead?
Resurrecting this as I read this interesting thread at W that focuses on the wordplay of "hoar" and "whore". Caught my eye for obvious reasons, but the OP then posted this interesting quote re: the Sailor's Wife that I had completely forgotten about:
The other whores said that the Sailor's Wife visited the Isle of the Gods on the days when her flower was in bloom, and knew all the gods who lived there, even the ones that Braavos had forgotten. They said she went to pray for her first husband, her true husband, who had been lost at sea when she was a girl no older than Lanna. "She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her," said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, "but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse."
The "whore" (who initially wasn't) goes to the sacred place where the old gods are remembered, and prays for her FIRST true love that was lost to her when she was young. She wants help from A god, ANY god, that can return her lost lover to her via the "winds" that can blow him back.
She wants to call him back from death, this corpse lover.
Somewhere around here I laid out the inverse parallel between Dany and Lyanna - we see Dany try to call Drogo back from death, her true love, her sun and stars, via the tent magic. I think there's a good chance Lyanna did too. Whoever her first lover was, be it Brandon, The Smiling Knight, Rhaegar, or even Moon Boy for all I know, he died and she wanted him back. She went to the Riverlands to open the portal.
She wants to call him back from death, this corpse lover.
It appears that the Isle of Gods is the House of Black and White. She goes once a month during her menses, her moon blood.
A Feast for Crows - Arya I
The city had seemed like one big island from where the Titan stood, but as Yorko rowed them closer she saw that it was many small islands close together, linked by arched stone bridges that spanned innumerable canals. Beyond the harbor she glimpsed streets of grey stone houses, built so close they leaned one upon the other. To Arya's eyes they were queer-looking, four and five stories tall and very skinny, with sharp-peaked tile roofs like pointed hats. She saw no thatch, and only a few timbered houses of the sort she knew in Westeros. They have no trees, she realized. Braavos is all stone, a grey city in a green sea.
A Feast for Crows - Arya I "The Moonsingers led us to this place of refuge, where the dragons of Valyria could not find us," Denyo said. "Theirs is the greatest temple. We esteem the Father of Waters as well, but his house is built anew whenever he takes his bride. The rest of the gods dwell together on an isle in the center of the city. That is where you will find the . . . the Many-Faced God."
The Isle of the Gods on Braavos is the House of Black and White. Oddly, I suspect that it is Arya who calls Catelyn back to life as Lady Stoneheart:
A Storm of Swords - Arya XII The scent was stronger now. She pricked her ears up and listened to the grumbles of her pack, the shriek of angry crows, the whirr of wings and sound of running water. Somewhere far off she could hear horses and the calls of living men, but they were not what mattered. Only the scent mattered. She sniffed the air again. There it was, and now she saw it too, something pale and white drifting down the river, turning where it brushed against a snag. The reeds bowed down before it. She splashed noisily through the shallows and threw herself into the deeper water, her legs churning. The current was strong but she was stronger. She swam, following her nose. The river smells were rich and wet, but those were not the smells that pulled her. She paddled after the sharp red whisper of cold blood, the sweet cloying stench of death. She chased them as she had often chased a red deer through the trees, and in the end she ran them down, and her jaw closed around a pale white arm. She shook it to make it move, but there was only death and blood in her mouth. By now she was tiring, and it was all she could do to pull the body back to shore. As she dragged it up the muddy bank, one of her little brothers came prowling, his tongue lolling from his mouth. She had to snarl to drive him off, or else he would have fed. Only then did she stop to shake the water from her fur. The white thing lay facedown in the mud, her dead flesh wrinkled and pale, cold blood trickling from her throat. Rise, she thought. Rise and eat and run with us.
The sound of horses turned her head. Men. They were coming from downwind, so she had not smelled them, but now they were almost here. Men on horses, with flapping black and yellow and pink wings and long shiny claws in hand. Some of her younger brothers bared their teeth to defend the food they'd found, but she snapped at them until they scattered. That was the way of the wild. Deer and hares and crows fled before wolves, and wolves fled from men. She abandoned the cold white prize in the mud where she had dragged it, and ran, and felt no shame.
Arya/Nymeria leaves just as Beric, Thoros and Lem arrive. Thoros refuses to give Catelyn the kiss of fire because she has been dead too long; but Beric is compelled to pass the flame of life to her for some reason. Beric is afraid and asks for R'hllor's protection.
Does the Sailor's Wife go to the HoB&W because her first husband is a faceless man? Her ritual seems to start with her moon blood (maiden's blood?) and the any man she receives must first be wed to her... because any of them could be her first husband?
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Nov 18, 2017 17:51:02 GMT
More thoughts on Tysha. We may have another inverse parallel here: Tyrion/Tysha & Lyanna/TSK (using my crackpot assumptions about some things).
Here's the story:
"Do you know this song?" he asked.
"You hear it here and there, in inns and whorehouses."
"Myrish. ‘The Seasons of My Love.' Sweet and sad, if you understand the words. The first girl I ever bedded used to sing it, and I've never been able to put it out of my head." Tyrion gazed up at the sky. It was a clear cold night and the stars shone down upon the mountains as bright and merciless as truth. "I met her on a night like this," he heard himself saying. "Jaime and I were riding back from Lannisport when we heard a scream, and she came running out into the road with two men dogging her heels, shouting threats. My brother unsheathed his sword and went after them, while I dismounted to protect the girl. She was scarcely a year older than I was, dark-haired, slender, with a face that would break your heart. It certainly broke mine. Lowborn, half-starved, unwashed . . . yet lovely. They'd torn the rags she was wearing half off her back, so I wrapped her in my cloak while Jaime chased the men into the woods. By the time he came trotting back, I'd gotten a name out of her, and a story. She was a crofter's child, orphaned when her father died of fever, on her way to . . . well, nowhere, really.
"Jaime was all in a lather to hunt down the men. It was not often outlaws dared prey on travelers so near to Casterly Rock, and he took it as an insult. The girl was too frightened to send off by herself, though, so I offered to take her to the closest inn and feed her while my brother rode back to the Rock for help.
"She was hungrier than I would have believed. We finished two whole chickens and part of a third, and drank a flagon of wine, talking. I was only thirteen, and the wine went to my head, I fear. The next thing I knew, I was sharing her bed. If she was shy, I was shyer. I'll never know where I found the courage. When I broke her maidenhead, she wept, but afterward she kissed me and sang her little song, and by morning I was in love."
"You?" Bronn's voice was amused.
"Absurd, isn't it?" Tyrion began to whistle the song again. "I married her," he finally admitted.
"A Lannister of Casterly Rock wed to a crofter's daughter," Bronn said. "How did you manage that?"
"Oh, you'd be astonished at what a boy can make of a few lies, fifty pieces of silver, and a drunken septon. I dared not bring my bride home to Casterly Rock, so I set her up in a cottage of her own, and for a fortnight we played at being man and wife. And then the septon sobered and confessed all to my lord father." Tyrion was surprised at how desolate it made him feel to say it, even after all these years. Perhaps he was just tired. "That was the end of my marriage." He sat up and stared at the dying fire, blinking at the light.
"He sent the girl away?"
"He did better than that," Tyrion said. "First he made my brother tell me the truth. The girl was a whore, you see. Jaime arranged the whole affair, the road, the outlaws, all of it. He thought it was time I had a woman. He paid double for a maiden, knowing it would be my first time.
"After Jaime had made his confession, to drive home the lesson, Lord Tywin brought my wife in and gave her to his guards. They paid her fair enough. A silver for each man, how many whores command that high a price? He sat me down in the corner of the barracks and bade me watch, and at the end she had so many silvers the coins were slipping through her fingers and rolling on the floor, she . . . " The smoke was stinging his eyes. Tyrion cleared his throat and turned away from the fire, to gaze out into darkness. "Lord Tywin had me go last," he said in a quiet voice. "And he gave me a gold coin to pay her, because I was a Lannister, and worth more."
After a time he heard the noise again, the rasp of steel on stone as Bronn sharpened his sword. "Thirteen or thirty or three, I would have killed the man who did that to me."
Tyrion swung around to face him. "You may get that chance one day. Remember what I told you. A Lannister always pays his debts."
Tyrion, the youngest son of a noble house, meets this lowborn 14yo-ish girl traveling a road in the Westerlands. He and his older brother encounter her being harassed by a group of men, and the brave skilled older brother drives them off.
---Little bit of conflation with the ToHH here, imo, but the takeaway shared 'archtypes' are: a teenage girl, an older brother, a common person, a group of outlaws, a stranger in need of help.
Tyrion and Tysha fall in love and marry in secret. They settle into a cottage by the sea for two weeks of wedded bliss.
---I think this is the parallel to Lyanna meeting TSK and falling in with the Kingswood Brotherhood. Tyrion keeps his secret lover in a cottage by the sea near his home of Casterly Rock; Lyanna's secret lover hangs out in the woods adjacent King's Landing where I believe she was serving at court.
Tywin finds out that his son has gone slumming. He has Jaime give Tyrion the whore story to taint the relationship.
---Here we can explore the possibility of Rickard learning about Lyanna's outlaw lover. Two options: he either takes steps to end it due to the previous betrothal to Robert, or he encourages it because he knows the real identity of TSK (whom I suspect is the last male descendant of Daemon Blackfyre, the "true" Targaryen king). Either way, the older brother - Brandon - is the go-between &/or enforcer after this discovery comes to light.
Tysha, a lowborn crofter's daughter, is "rebranded" to Tyrion as a whore. Her new identity as a prostitute, an idea fed by Tywin and Jaime, turns out to be false in the end: she is in fact just a peasant girl who pays the price for getting involved in the affairs of highborn men.
---If TSK is in fact a Blackfyre descendant, then we have an inversion: the 'lowborn' outlaw that Lyanna would have known would in fact be royalty. The identity that Lyanna would have been presented with is false; however, her father and older brother may know the truth of the Smiling Knight's birth. Another flip is that in the end, TSK, actually highborn, pays the price for getting involved in the affairs of lowborn men (the Brotherhood).
After being defiled by Tywin's men, Tysha disappears. If she is indeed the Sailor's Wife, she left Westeros and ended up in Essos.
---If TSK = Blackfyre, the Blackfyre line lived in exile in Essos; TSK would have come the other direction from Essos to Westeros.
What also strikes me here is that a Brotherhood that is terrifying the lands is led by...an imposter, none other than the Mountain, who is compared to the Smiling Knight, the Mountain of Jaime's boyhood.
So I can fairly say that we might be led to believe that the Smiling Knight is a certain person, but GRRM is playing with us, because the true Smiling Knight might not be the man who was killed in the Kingswood by Ser Arthur Dayne. We need to find an imposter as the suspect. Or bonus points for one that later joins the ranks of the undead
The final death-scene version of the Smiling Knight is defined by his coveting of Dawn, which I think is a significant factor in identifying him. I mentioned before that I had two gnawing ideas about TSK, one that the visual of the name is so similar to The Knight of the Laughing Tree, which you know I think involved warging (and possibly Bran).
Placeholdering this as it relates velly velly much to the essay I'm working on right now.
First off - this passage is the strongest evidence you've found that may give some insight into Lyanna's lover. I don't know if this is prior to her "abduction" or if this describes the actual disappearance. The line about setting up a cottage for a fortnight is a long time to be gone. Isn't a fortnight two weeks?
She was scarcely a year older than I was, dark-haired, slender, with a face that would break your heart. It certainly broke mine. Lowborn, half-starved, unwashed . . . yet lovely. They'd torn the rags she was wearing half off her back, so I wrapped her in my cloak while Jaime chased the men into the woods. By the time he came trotting back, I'd gotten a name out of her, and a story. She was a crofter's child, orphaned when her father died of fever, on her way to . . . well, nowhere, really.
My first takeaway from this made me recall how Lem Lemoncloak, Tom Sevenstrings, Harwin, Anguy, along with Gendry, brought Arya to Acorn Hall and Lady Smallwood gave Arya the acorn dress. Lem let it slip that Arya was highborn and Lady Smallwood took them to task for dressing Arya in "Bolton rags". Would Lyanna's captors know who she was or would it be the opposite and they didn't know? I also think it's telling that Gendry joined up with the Brotherhood. I think this might be evidence that Robert Baratheon was in the group that took Lyanna. It is during this time that Arya begins to have doubts about Gendry's friendship.
There is also an interesting line in this passage that could be an inversion to the whorehouse angle - Lady Smallwood told Arya, "My great-aunt is a septa at a motherhouse in Oldtown. I sent my daughter there when the war began...."
What also strikes me here is that a Brotherhood that is terrifying the lands is led by... an imposter, none other than the Mountain, who is compared to the Smiling Knight, the Mountain of Jaime's boyhood.
Just dropping this thought - what if Jaime's words literally referred to Gregor in his youth? The Mountain of Jaime's boyhood could still be the Mountain...as a teen. Although aren't boys nearly full grown by 17?
Found a passage that supports the theory that the detachment that Aerys sent out became an outlaw group. If they weren't the actual Kingswood Brotherhood then their actions became like them. The same thing happened to Lord Beric and Thoros. They were sent to deal with outlaws and then they became the outlaws:
“By then the fighting had passed by us. The Mountain’s men were only the van of Lord Tywin’s host. They crossed the Red Fork in strength and swept up into the riverlands, burning everything in their path. We were so few that all we could do was harry their rear, but we told each other that we’d join up with King Robert when he marched west to crush Lord Tywin’s rebellion. Only then we heard that Robert was dead, and Lord Eddard as well, and Cersei Lannister’s whelp had ascended the Iron Throne.
“That turned the whole world on its head. We’d been sent out by the King’s Hand to deal with outlaws, you see, but now we were the outlaws, and Lord Tywin was the Hand of the King. There was some wanted to yield then, but Lord Beric wouldn’t hear of it. We were still king’s men, he said, and these were the king’s people the lions were savaging. If we could not fight for Robert, we would fight for them, until every man of us was dead. And so we did, but as we fought something queer happened. For every man we lost, two showed up to take his place. A few were knights or squires, of gentle birth, but most were common men— men— fieldhands and fiddlers and innkeeps, servants and shoemakers, even two septons. Men of all sorts, and women too, children, dogs . . .”
Ned was Robert's van during the Rebellion. You could almost reimagine that first passage and apply it to Aerys' men. The detachment that turned outlaw could have included the three Kingsguard of Hightower, Dayne, and Whent. Ned's van met Robert at the Trident, then swept past Robert when he became injured. Any survivors could have "harried" Ned's rear, but the surviving detachment could also have had hopes to join Twyin's host in the west. Once they heard Aerys was dead, that Tywin had sacked the city, and how Robert would be the presumed king - it turned their whole world on its head.