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Post by Melifeather on Feb 21, 2018 16:13:25 GMT
This isn't a full-blown essay, but rather a large over all theory open to discussion.
I have a new theory that the Others are Ironborn. I have to backup a bit to interject that iron is a known substance used in wards, and the reason why the people are called Ironborn is because the Children tried to keep them out of Westeros and keep the peace, which is what wards are all about.
The Ironborn's power is derived from the sea and their Drowned God. The Children called down their hammer of waters to sever the Iron Islands from the mainland. This worked for awhile, but the people were resilient and were reborn as raiders. The separation from Westeros was meant as a type of ward, but since they broke free of their restraints they were reborn from the iron (ward), or Ironborn.
The Ironborn built ships and turned to raiding for a living, so the Children manipulated the seasons and brought about an extended winter to freeze the sea and the Ironborn's water magic, but magic is a double-bladed sword without a hilt. They didn't realize that the Ironborn would be able to work with frozen water and create white walker soldiers.
The Children weren't the only ones hunted by the white walkers. The First Men sent out the Last Hero and his friends to seek out the Children. We know some of how that story turned out with everyone dying but the Last Hero, but somehow a plan was put together to defeat the Others and it worked. The white walkers only appeared after the sun went down so the humans behind them needed to be dealt with during daylight hours and imprisoned until the Wall could be built - keeping them separated and unable to make the blood sacrifices necessary to work magic. After the Wall was built the water magic of the Ironborn was contained and warded with woven layers of ice magic.
Fast forward to Harren the Black who built Harrenhal in the Riverlands to mock the old gods. He clear cut all the weirwoods and dug up any greenseers he found. The surviving remnant of Children fled beyond the Wall into the cave where they now reside. Fire magic was summoned to deal with Harren by way of Aegon the Conqueror, and Harrenhal was destroyed. Aegon used a thousand swords of the defeated to build his Iron Throne. There were many Houses destroyed during the conquest, but IMO the Iron Throne is named after the defeated Ironborn.
The Citadel and their maesters have been working on reducing the strength of the fire magic over the last 300 years. By having a maester in every great House they are fighting a war of propaganda teaching children a warped history so that they think historical threats and stories were so far in the past as to be legends and myths, gremlins and snarks. The dragons have died out, each generation reduced in size, either by confinement or poisoning or both. Once the Targaryens were weakened enough, they saw their chance and plotted a scheme where they pinned the blame for a kidnapping on the heir apparent in order to have a "just cause" to rally the Houses, take the Iron Throne, and install an Andal king.
Back to the Ironborn - Damphair has a terrible memory of Euron and a squeaky hinge - the Wall is a hinge, and hinges hold doors. Somehow the wards holding the water magic were unwoven and opened releasing the Ironborn's Drowned God into the North. Ice magic is still holding the Wall up as a barrier, but the water magic was released, albeit frozen. The wildlings are descendants of Ironborn and still have the knowledge to create white walkers. They're only pretending to flee, when really the white walkers and wights are their vanguard. Euron has sent Victarion to intercept Dany and her dragons so that they cannot be used against his frozen Drowned God when it breaks free of the Wall. Yet to be seen is any help or interference by Cotter Pyke (an Ironborn) - the commander of Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Feb 22, 2018 22:10:10 GMT
This thought occurred to me as well. I think that the current Iron Born are now mostly descended from the First Men, but my guess is that the first inhabitants of those islands may be synonymous with what was historically known as the White Walkers up north, and perhaps the squishers down south and along the coastlines. I think there are a few Iron born families like House Codd, that may still have blood ties to the original "ironborn" or those inhabitants of the island that created the black Seastone chair.
My thought is the original "others" were pale, perhaps albino creatures, capable of being resurrected after being "drowned", perhaps somewhat amphibious.
The icy white walkers seen by Will and fought by Sam, may be ice golems created to resemble the White Walkers of legend and folklore, a tale that grew in the telling, making the Others more and more monstrous after successive generations.
The Long Night perhaps drove the original Others inland where they first came into contact with the First Men, and the story of the White Walkers were born.
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Post by Melifeather on Feb 23, 2018 3:46:21 GMT
From the wiki:
The Iron Islands were settled by the First Men many thousands of years ago, although the priests of the Drowned God claim the ironborn came from beneath the oceans, and are more kin to fish and merlings than the rest of mankind.
The ironborn believe that the Drowned God is opposed by the Storm God. This malignant deity dwells in the sky and has hatred for men and all their works. The Storm God resides in a cloudy hall, and sends cruel winds, lashing rains, and the thunder and lightning down upon men. The Drowned God and the Storm God are said to have been at war against one another for "a thousand thousand years"
Some interesting things about the Grey King from the wiki:
The Grey King is a legendary monarch of the Iron Islands who is said to have ruled for 1,007 years.
Legends say the Grey King slew the sea dragon Nagga, after which the Drowned God turned the sea dragon's bones to stone. From the bones was made the Grey King's Hall, which he heated with Nagga's living fire. He took a mermaid as his wife so his children could live on land or in water. He also wore a crown of driftwood so all who knelt before him would know his power came from the sea and the Drowned God himself.
The Grey King brought fire to the earth by taunting the Storm God into setting a tree on fire with a thunderbolt. He taught men to weave nets and sails. The Grey King allegedly carved the first longship from the pale wood of Ygg, a demon tree which fed on human flesh.
The Grey King's skin turned as grey as his hair and beard as he ruled over centuries. He eventually he cast aside his driftwood crown and walked into the sea to descend to the watery halls of the Drowned God to take his place at the right hand of the god. The Storm God snuffed out Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death and the sea stole his throne, with Nagga's bones the only remnants of the Grey King's Hall.
I know this is slim evidence, but is it possible the Black Gate is the Grey King? The salty tear that fell on Bran kind of sounds like it could be connected to the sea and the Ironborn. The descent to the watery halls of the Drowned God could refer to the well at the Nightfort, and "the Storm God" could just be a reference to a Durrandon.
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Post by Melifeather on Feb 23, 2018 23:45:32 GMT
SerArthur on Heresy has a nice theoryI think this is a possible connection between the pyke-sea wolf and the Warg King Gaven Greywolf. The "grey" recalls to mind the Grey King and his grey skin. It's a nice alternative explanation as to why the Starks would war against other wargs, especially if those other wargs were "sea wolfs". It's more evidence to support the idea that the Others are the Ironborn. They are of First Men blood too, so it shouldn't be of any surprise if they were skinchangers. |
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Post by Melifeather on Feb 23, 2018 23:45:37 GMT
SerArthur on Heresy has a nice theory - Backing up a bit - the Iron Island bastard last names are Pyke and a pyke is both a fish and a lance, but most exciting is the pike fish nickname: "sea wolf". I think this is a possible connection between the pyke-sea wolf and the Warg King Gaven Greywolf. The "grey" recalls to mind the Grey King and his grey skin. It's a nice alternative explanation as to why the Starks would war against other wargs, especially if those other wargs were "sea wolfs". It's more evidence to support the idea that the Others are the Ironborn. They are of First Men blood too, so it shouldn't be of any surprise if they were skinchangers. |
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Post by min on Feb 24, 2018 10:23:27 GMT
The Grey King brought fire to the earth by taunting the Storm God into setting a tree on fire with a thunderbolt. He taught men to weave nets and sails. The Grey King allegedly carved the first longship from the pale wood of Ygg, a demon tree which fed on human flesh.This sounds a lot like Trios, doesn't it? I've come to the conclusion that the Black Gate is the middle head; the head that nobody knows what it does. The Black Gate isn't just a glamored and warded hole in the Wall that gives passage from one side of the wall to the other; it's a magical doorway that allows Bran to access it on a metaphysical level. I think this is what we are seeing in the Tree-Bran and Ghost-John encounter. Jon's description of the sapling growing out of the rock (where no tree exists); strange and slim, reaching for the light matches the description of the weirwood at the Nightfort. But I think this 'tree; is connected to the monstrous tree at Whitetree; the one that receives burnt offerings. It fits the description of a demon-tree. So trees like it or this tree specifically is the first head of Trios; the one the devours the dying. It's from the third head that the dead are reborn. I'm not quite sure what form this takes and whether this included: ice wights, Patchface, Beric and Lady Stoneheart. Considering that Thoros can resurrect Beric when the GoHH tells Thoros that his red god has no power in her place; I have to wonder if the Drowned God can resurrect the dead through the mouths of others. This might explain the Damphair's ritual of drowning men and breathing air back into their lungs. In other words, the third head or mouth of Trios uses Thoros to resurrect those two. This is also why I think Dany's vision of a blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice, refers to Bran rather than Jon. Bran's power is growing and he can access the magic of the Wall; something that Melisandre seems to do herself when she burns Rattleshirt and the Wall is alive with light. This is something she also tells Jon that he can do if he will only accept his power. It makes sens that Bran will access the Gate as well. Not coincidently, the doorway may also be accessed by the warlocks of Qarth since the door to the HoU is a replica of the Black Gate. Which begs the question of who is raising the wights and looking through their eyes. Recalling that Thistle loses her eyes; but she can still see with her eyes replaced by blue flames. This reminds me that the red lot can see what's going on through their fires. With the warlocks this might include the use of glass candles to see in real time. Recalling Varys experience with the sorcerer in Myr: The fact that the flames turn blue and the corrupt heart of the HoU is a blue heart; one has to wonder who is actually raising the wights and the white walkers. The WW also speak in a language that Gared can't understand although it sounds like ice cracking; perhaps there is something else to it and they are not speaking the 'true tongue' as it was first supposed. Considering that the Undying wanted to trap and consume Dany and Drogo; they are positioned as enemies of fire, or the opposing force. Euron is the enemy of the drowned god and intends to become the Storm God reborn. Is he conspiring with the minions of the night in Essos to overthrow the old gods of the wood when he says their 'little gods' can't stop him? It's chilling to think that he is mocking Bran when he cuts off Pyat Pree's legs and hangs him from the rafters of his banquet hall. Ultimately is the battle over who will control access to the power of the Wall? |
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Post by Melifeather on Feb 24, 2018 14:48:02 GMT
This sounds a lot like Trios, doesn't it? I've come to the conclusion that the Black Gate is the middle head; the head that nobody knows what it does. The Black Gate isn't just a glamored and warded hole in the Wall that gives passage from one side of the wall to the other; it's a magical doorway that allows Bran to access it on a metaphysical level. I think this is what we are seeing in the Tree-Bran and Ghost-John encounter. Jon's description of the sapling growing out of the rock (where no tree exists); strange and slim, reaching for the light matches the description of the weirwood at the Nightfort. Trios? A three-headed diety? The Ironborn recognize two gods, one of water and one of air. The current Ironborn seem to pray only to the water god and fear the air god, but isn't that a parallel to the Christian god and the devil? But I think this 'tree; is connected to the monstrous tree at Whitetree; the one that receives burnt offerings. It fits the description of a demon-tree. So trees like it or this tree specifically is the first head of Trios; the one the devours the dying. It's from the third head that the dead are reborn. I'm not quite sure what form this takes and whether this included: ice wights, Patchface, Beric and Lady Stoneheart. Considering that Thoros can resurrect Beric when the GoHH tells Thoros that his red god has no power in her place; I have to wonder if the Drowned God can resurrect the dead through the mouths of others. This might explain the Damphair's ritual of drowning men and breathing air back into their lungs. In other words, the third head or mouth of Trios uses Thoros to resurrect those two. I do think the burned offerings inside monstrous tree at Whitetree are symbolic of the Ironborn's Ygg tree. It's a demon tree and that may be the tree where Craster's sons are being sacrificed. I do believe that the drowning and resuscitating ritual that the Drowned God's followers practice is in memory of raising the dead to wights. "What is dead may never die, but rises again, stronger and harder!" I have an idea about how this came about. When the Iron Islands were separated from the mainland, many Ironborn were likely killed in the resulting tsunami - they drowned. The survivors cut down Ygg the demon tree and made a longboat and sailed back to the mainland. To stop them the Children manipulated the seasons to bring on an extended winter and froze the Ironborn out at sea. This is where the Storm God steps in and gives breath to the dead water-worshipping Ironborn, and they were raised from the dead. Euron's men reported that the Storm God can be appeased by blood sacrifice to work in their favor, so there must have been some Ironborn still alive to sacrifice to the Storm God to create the white walkers, which is turn walked across the sheet of ice raising the dead. Recalling that Thistle loses her eyes; but she can still see with her eyes replaced by blue flames. Euron's eye is described "as blue as a summer sky", and since he's the Crow's Eye - I think he's a prime suspect for being responsible for raising the dead. He may have abilities like Bloodraven in that his sight is a thousand eyes and one. Euron is the enemy of the drowned god and intends to become the Storm God reborn. I have to disagree that Euron is the enemy of the Drowned God. Aeron Damphair views Euron as an enemy, but it's the combination of the two magical elements of water and air that creates white walkers. Euron is sacrificing to the Storm God in order to appease it and use it, but then he will use the magical air to breath life into the drowned Ironborn. |
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