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Post by min on Nov 24, 2016 15:12:12 GMT
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Post by min on Jan 8, 2017 23:24:12 GMT
This dream of Bran's and Summer's dream... anyone know what it is? Did Bran dream of the Red Wedding and Summer the beheading of Grey Wind?
Bran hasn't told anyone about it. Why?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jan 10, 2017 16:53:25 GMT
Did Bran dream of the Red Wedding and Summer the beheading of Grey Wind? That's how I always interpreted it. Bran hasn't told anyone about it. Why? Denial? The wolf becoming the ostrich and burying his head in the sand to the reality? Bran has been with Jojen for quite some time now, and has had firsthand experience with both Jojen's greendreams becoming reality and his own "wolf dreams" via Summer also being real. I think Bran - who is just a 9yo boy here - is simply pulling the kid's trick of diving under the covers to make the monsters go away - if he can't see them, they aren't there. If he doesn't acknowledge Summer's dream, then it didn't happen. It's a child's way of dealing with the world, and for all his knowledge and exposure, Bran is still a child.
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Post by min on Mar 3, 2017 15:23:29 GMT
Does anyone recall a passage where the Andals are said to have black blood? I came across it at one point and didn't mark it. Now I'm trying to find it again. And the second things I'm looking for is passage where Dany looks up at the night sky and sees the dragon constellation with it's blue eye. Can't find it either.
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 3, 2017 19:31:43 GMT
Does anyone recall a passage where the Andals are said to have black blood? I came across it at one point and didn't mark it. Now I'm trying to find it again. And the second things I'm looking for is passage where Dany looks up at the night sky and sees the dragon constellation with it's blue eye. Can't find it either. I came up with zero on the Andals with Black blood? It seems like it's usually a way of describing someone as a bad person, or someone who is a "full blooded" night's watchmen.
I know that Jon and Ygritte discussed the dragon constellation, but I don't remember it being in Dany's POV.
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Post by min on Mar 3, 2017 23:59:02 GMT
Does anyone recall a passage where the Andals are said to have black blood? I came across it at one point and didn't mark it. Now I'm trying to find it again. And the second things I'm looking for is passage where Dany looks up at the night sky and sees the dragon constellation with it's blue eye. Can't find it either. I came up with zero on the Andals with Black blood? It seems like it's usually a way of describing someone as a bad person, or someone who is a "full blooded" night's watchmen.
I know that Jon and Ygritte discussed the dragon constellation, but I don't remember it being in Dany's POV.
Damn! I know I came across a reference to the black blood of the Andals and if I can find it; it poses some interesting questions about the NW after they were Andalized. In other words, they no longer fulfill their original purpose, they've been 'bastardized' in a sense and if you join the Watch; then your blood is black or tainted by the corruption of the original NW purpose. Craster's heavy curse, might have something to do with King Sherrit calling down a curse on the Andals of old and Craster might have Andal blood through his father in the NW. Thanks for looking though.
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Post by min on Mar 4, 2017 0:04:32 GMT
Oh here it is. It's in the World Book. I'll have to check if this is a sidebar insert by GRRM.
The World of Ice and Fire - The Iron Islands: The Black Blood Archmaester Hake tells us that the kings of House Hoare were, "black of hair, black of eye, and black of heart." Their foes claimed their blood was black as well, darkened by the "Andal taint," for many of the early Hoare kings took maidens of that ilk to wife. True ironborn had salt water in their veins, the priests of the Drowned God proclaimed; the black-blooded Hoares were false kings, ungodly usurpers who must be cast down.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 7, 2017 1:39:09 GMT
the second things I'm looking for is passage where Dany looks up at the night sky and sees the dragon constellation with it's blue eye. Can't find it either Jon and Bran and Sam talk of the ice dragon. Bran says the Dragon's eye points north and the tail points south. "When they lost their way, as happened once or twice, they need only wait for a clear cold night when the clouds did not intrude, and look up in the sky for the Ice Dragon. The blue star in the dragon’s eye pointed the way north, as Osha told him once." And Osha did tell Bran of the constellation on page, “Osha,” Bran asked as they crossed the yard. “Do you know the way north? To the Wall and … and even past?” “The way’s easy. Look for the Ice Dragon, and chase the blue star in the rider’s eye.” She backed through a door and started up the winding steps. It's the rider's eye that is blue, according to Osha.
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Post by min on Mar 7, 2017 15:58:52 GMT
Thank you. There is one passage where Dany looks up in the night sky and sees the ice dragon but doesn't call it that or anything else. Once of these days, I'll find it.
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zena
Black Iron
Posts: 15
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Post by zena on Feb 29, 2020 18:03:23 GMT
Is Hodor related to Hodr? In Norse (and by extension Indo-European) mythology Hodr is the twin of Baldr and they are said to be sons of Odin (though I suspect their father is Tyr/Thor instead). In myths Hodr a famed warrior slays his twin Baldr with a cursed sword and of course a woman is involved.
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 4, 2020 17:03:37 GMT
Is Hodor related to Hodr? In Norse (and by extension Indo-European) mythology Hodr is the twin of Baldr and they are said to be sons of Odin (though I suspect their father is Tyr/Thor instead). In myths Hodr a famed warrior slays his twin Baldr with a cursed sword and of course a woman is involved. I do believe GRRM has taken inspiration from Norse mythology as well as the oft reported War of the Roses. The Norse Hodr was blind and quite gullible. Loki tricked him into throwing a mistletoe spear at Baldr. It was the only thing his mother forgot to protect him against. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent story with Hodor, however. No one has reported Hodor as having a brother - much less a twin, but he does seem to be mentally handicapped. The mummer's show chose to show him as trying to hold a door shut - and GRRM has said we will learn why he only says "Hodor", but I think it'll be quite different than the show. Maybe he will end up having a twin that he accidentally killed with a spear?
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zena
Black Iron
Posts: 15
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Post by zena on Mar 5, 2020 19:05:16 GMT
Is Hodor related to Hodr? In Norse (and by extension Indo-European) mythology Hodr is the twin of Baldr and they are said to be sons of Odin (though I suspect their father is Tyr/Thor instead). In myths Hodr a famed warrior slays his twin Baldr with a cursed sword and of course a woman is involved. I do believe GRRM has taken inspiration from Norse mythology as well as the oft reported War of the Roses. The Norse Hodr was blind and quite gullible. Loki tricked him into throwing a mistletoe spear at Baldr. It was the only thing his mother forgot to protect him against. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent story with Hodor, however. No one has reported Hodor as having a brother - much less a twin, but he does seem to be mentally handicapped. The mummer's show chose to show him as trying to hold a door shut - and GRRM has said we will learn why he only says "Hodor", but I think it'll be quite different than the show. Maybe he will end up having a twin that he accidentally killed with a spear? There is a YouTubers that posts about Nordic myths and their connection to other Indo-European ones, he posted one about mythological twins and pre-Christian versions of Norse deities, Hodr was actually a warrior and not physically blind in those myths and mistletoe spear would be about a cursed weapon made for Baltyr, he also talked about how Odin knew about their fate but did nothing to prevent it etc. You know Hodor's real name Walder is similar to Baltyr hah, is it true his condition in the books is connected to an incident in the crypts? Why would Walder be there?
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Post by Melifeather on Mar 6, 2020 20:24:47 GMT
I do believe GRRM has taken inspiration from Norse mythology as well as the oft reported War of the Roses. The Norse Hodr was blind and quite gullible. Loki tricked him into throwing a mistletoe spear at Baldr. It was the only thing his mother forgot to protect him against. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent story with Hodor, however. No one has reported Hodor as having a brother - much less a twin, but he does seem to be mentally handicapped. The mummer's show chose to show him as trying to hold a door shut - and GRRM has said we will learn why he only says "Hodor", but I think it'll be quite different than the show. Maybe he will end up having a twin that he accidentally killed with a spear? There is a YouTubers that posts about Nordic myths and their connection to other Indo-European ones, he posted one about mythological twins and pre-Christian versions of Norse deities, Hodr was actually a warrior and not physically blind in those myths and mistletoe spear would be about a cursed weapon made for Baltyr, he also talked about how Odin knew about their fate but did nothing to prevent it etc. You know Hodor's real name Walder is similar to Baltyr hah, is it true his condition in the books is connected to an incident in the crypts? Why would Walder be there? I have read speculation that Hodor's given name, Walder, suggests that one of his parents was a Frey. Furthermore, its been suggested that Old Nan is a Frey and related to Hodor. Perhaps GRRM intended to rhyme Walder with Baldr? It does seem deliberate, and maybe Hodr/Baldr are both the inspiration for Hodor? But other than his names, is there anything else about Hodor that is like Hodr and Baldr?
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zena
Black Iron
Posts: 15
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Post by zena on Mar 7, 2020 12:32:23 GMT
There is a YouTubers that posts about Nordic myths and their connection to other Indo-European ones, he posted one about mythological twins and pre-Christian versions of Norse deities, Hodr was actually a warrior and not physically blind in those myths and mistletoe spear would be about a cursed weapon made for Baltyr, he also talked about how Odin knew about their fate but did nothing to prevent it etc. You know Hodor's real name Walder is similar to Baltyr hah, is it true his condition in the books is connected to an incident in the crypts? Why would Walder be there? I have read speculation that Hodor's given name, Walder, suggests that one of his parents was a Frey. Furthermore, its been suggested that Old Nan is a Frey and related to Hodor. Perhaps GRRM intended to rhyme Walder with Baldr? It does seem deliberate, and maybe Hodr/Baldr are both the inspiration for Hodor? But other than his names, is there anything else about Hodor that is like Hodr and Baldr? Hodor's strength and height could be seen God like but no I wouldn't say Hodor is like Hodr/Baldr beside the name. Though Baltyr's death is the beginning of Ragnarok, and depending on when Walder ended up as Hodr we can speculate Other activity in North.
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