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Post by Weasel Pie on Mar 13, 2016 22:30:55 GMT
The Children, the gods, whatever, anyone who produces "song", IMO has tapped into the frequencies needed to manipulate elements of their world. you've probably seen a similar thing before, but this always fascinates me because it's really a thing.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Mar 14, 2016 21:52:33 GMT
science is so freaking cool As is Nikola Tesla
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on Mar 15, 2016 3:20:11 GMT
The Children, the gods, whatever, anyone who produces "song", IMO has tapped into the frequencies needed to manipulate elements of their world. you've probably seen a similar thing before, but this always fascinates me because it's really a thing.I was waiting for one of those patterns to look like the White Walker's corpse artwork in the HBO show
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Post by min on Mar 18, 2016 20:01:22 GMT
While I recognize that the story does contain actual "magic horns", such as the Valyrian horns, and actual "magic swords" such as Dawn and the Valryian blades, I'm still of the opinion that Martin's actual magic swords and horns are his characters. I think the "magic swords" are forged through genetic breeding of various magical bloodlines, while his magic horns may stand for the telepathic characters in his story (such as perhaps Bran, Arya, and Ghost). At least as of now, I'm putting Jon in the "magic sword" category (especially since I think he may prove to be our Lightbringer). This fits with the oath of the Night's Watch, that they are themselves the sword, horn and shield. As Syrio Forell admonishes Arya when he asks her if she can drop her arm if she drops her sword. With magic objects, I assume that the object acts on the person wielding it as much as the person acting on the object by using it. There is also Dany's vision in the House of the Undying: "Drink from the cup of fire, drink from the cup of ice." Horns are also drinking implements as Jon tells Sam. If he can't fix the broken horn, turn it into a drinking cup. I'm inclined to think that Mel still has "Joramun's" horn. Reading the passage of Mance's burning; I think the horn was a glamored substitute. There was a great horn at the top of the wall to use as a switch. I think if you had to drink from the cup of ice or fire; drinking and winding are the same thing if we go by the Kingsmoot results of that act. There is a price to pay. Val reminds us that the Horned Lord warns against winding the horn. Joramun's Horn may also be the name of a mountain. (eg. Matterhorn). It seems right to me that the Horn of Winter would be found underneath a glacier at the foot of a mountain. The two great horns are binding horns. One binds dragons and the other wakes giants in the earth. What of the horn that wakes the sleepers from the Oath of the Night's Watch. Horns of the type that Jon finds are ubiquitous at the Wall. Tyrion notes Jon's horn when he visits with him on top of the Wall. My guess is that the broken horn is also a binding horn, one that wakes the sleepers on the Wall. It may be the Night King's horn and this may explain the stories of the Night King binding the men of the watch with strange magics. Watch out Sam of Hornhill. Pate the faceless man has a skeleton key and he will lead you to all the forbidden books.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Mar 18, 2016 23:44:33 GMT
My guess is that the broken horn is also a binding horn, one that wakes the sleepers on the Wall. It may be the Night King's horn and this may explain the stories of the Night King binding the men of the watch with strange magics. Watch out Sam of Hornhill. Pate the faceless man has a skeleton key and he will lead you to all the forbidden books. I have thought this too, but you present it in such better terms. Whoever's cloak that was holding the obsidian and the horn together may have been newer than the cache itself. And the cache was newly acquired by following the footsteps of Mance's crew and searching in graves they've discarded as being empty or worthless.
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Post by min on Mar 19, 2016 0:17:40 GMT
I want to stick with the idea that there is a actual horn of winter. Mel has powders that she can use to get a the truth. So I don't think Mance kept anything from her and I don't think she would risk unintended consequences of destroying Mance's horn. She's all about theatricality. Does Mel know how to read the runes?
The thread premise is intriguing. It's interesting that Ghost has been silent so far and that Ghost led Jon to the broken horn and the cache. I just wonder where Coldhands has been hiding all this time given Ygritte's anxiety about all the graves they opened. Is there a connection between Joramun and direwolves? What would that imply about Jon Snow?
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 19, 2016 0:34:52 GMT
Is there a connection between Joramun and direwolves? I have thought the the horn of Joramun could have been used, by Joramun, to breech the Wall to assist in the take down of the Night's King. To be more specific, the horn was used to open the Black Gate and pass through into the Nightfort (or whatever it was called at the time). In the context of this thread topic and your post I quoted... well, I think it's kinda cool.
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Post by snowfyre on Mar 19, 2016 0:46:43 GMT
Well, it's an interesting topic for theories. I like the idea that Joramun "cried out in the hard cruel times," or something like that... and the song / legend was recast a bit in translation from the Old to the Common Tongue. But time will tell, of course. I've also got a vague little theory that the Wall itself was originally metaphorical... and that over the last 8,000 years or so, the NW got carried away building an actual Wall. Probably overcome by Seven Pointed Literalists, or something.
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Post by min on Mar 19, 2016 0:48:51 GMT
I'm wondering if Joramun is the Night's King, the Many Faced God, The Horned Lord... Coldhands and if things really went down the way they are told in the histories. If the Horn of Winter must be claimed (like Dragonbinder); then who can claim it but the King of Winter. That's a Stark. Jon may be resurrected by fire in the show; but I'm thinking he will be raised in the same manner as Coldhands and become the new Horned Lord.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 19, 2016 1:14:13 GMT
Right on. I am all for the non-literal interpretations. Even with what I just said, I think the Night Fort could have been just a single structure at the time. Not a castle on the Wall.
As to Joramun, he was never given the title "king beyond the wall." Not in the story proper. He could have held any number of titles besides.
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Post by min on Mar 19, 2016 2:03:59 GMT
LOL - seven pointed literalist - I'm stealing that.
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Post by snowfyre on Mar 19, 2016 2:07:19 GMT
I'm wondering if Joramun is the Night's King, the Many Faced God, The Horned Lord... Coldhands and if things really went down the way they are told in the histories. If the Horn of Winter must be claimed (like Dragonbinder); then who can claim it but the King of Winter. That's a Stark. Jon may be resurrected by fire in the show; but I'm thinking he will be raised in the same manner as Coldhands and become the new Horned Lord. Yep. I could be on board with some of that. For instance, I've wondered before whether the three men mentioned here: ...could actually all be the same person.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Mar 19, 2016 2:31:59 GMT
Yep. I could be on board with some of that. For instance, I've wondered before whether the three men mentioned here: For thirteen years they had ruled, Night’s King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. ...could actually all be the same person. Ah the lack of an Oxford comma. See what happens when standards slip.
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Post by min on Mar 19, 2016 3:17:46 GMT
I am sorry for derailing the thread. I need to discipline myself on thread cohesion instead of going off in a corkscrew direction. I do like what you have presented. I've had to reframe some of Old Nan's tales to arrive at a place where they could be true rather than scary stories. I haven't looked around enough to see if there is already a thread for this stuff. The story of the Thing that Came in the Night can be reframed as The Night's King entering the dreams of the apprentice boys perhaps with dreams of flying. All 3 died and one went mad. Did they leap off the wall to see if they could fly? He is accused of sacrificing his "children" to the Others. Each boy saw a different face. This is getting into 3 eyed crow and many faced god territory. As for the Ice Queen taking his soul; is this shadow-baby territory? So we have three apprentice boys: Arya the apprentice faceless man, Bran the apprentice greenseer and Jon Snow the apprentice horned lord/night's king. And Euron who is maddest of them all. Who shows up to collect Bran but Coldhands, a faceless man. He compels Sam to take an oath 3 times never to reveal that Bran is alive. Let him be dead. Sam owes Coldhands 3 lives. Jon thinks he is damned at this point. I think Jon's story will inform the past. The only thing missing when Coldhand arrives on his elk is a pair of antlers on his head.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Mar 19, 2016 3:28:38 GMT
I am sorry for derailing the thread. I need to discipline myself on thread cohesion instead of going off in a corkscrew direction. I do like what you have presented. I've had to reframe some of Old Nan's tales to arrive at a place where they could be true rather than scary stories. I haven't looked around enough to see if there is already a thread for this stuff. The story of the Thing that Came in the Night can be reframed as The Night's King entering the dreams of the apprentice boys perhaps with dreams of flying. All 3 died and one went mad. Did they leap off the wall to see if they could fly? He is accused of sacrificing his "children" to the Others. Each boy saw a different face. This is getting into 3 eyed crow and many faced god territory. As for the Ice Queen taking his soul; is this shadow-baby territory? So we have three apprentice boys: Arya the apprentice faceless man, Bran the apprentice greenseer and Jon Snow the apprentice horned lord/night's king. And Euron who is maddest of them all. Who shows up to collect Bran but Coldhands, a faceless man. He compels Sam to take an oath 3 times never to reveal that Bran is alive. Let him be dead. Sam owes Coldhands 3 lives. Jon thinks he is damned at this point. I think Jon's story will inform the past. The only thing missing when Coldhand arrives on his elk is a pair of antlers on his head. Speaking of Old Nan's stories, I created a thread for that. A collection of some of the stories with some discussion. Mostly I made the thread to see if anything would stir up some ideas. But the stories of the Nightfort and the sinister characters I haven't posted yet. If you would like to create your own thread, that would be cool too.
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