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Post by snowfyre on May 23, 2016 17:52:15 GMT
Following up on my last comment... (this started as an edit, but then I realized it was getting long): That " Inside the Episode" chat is interesting for other reasons, as well. One of which is a particular phrase (underlined below) that I think is much less convincing that Weiss wanted it to sound: - "The Night King, who's sort of the embodiment of absolute evil. What you're watching is the creation of this absolute evil, so the absolute evil isn't absolute after all. No one's innocent, really, in this world. And there's just something, really, beautifully right about the idea that the great nemeses of mankind were created to protect the children of the forest from mankind."
Am I missing the beauty? Or is that sentence more or less just redundant? Didn't he just say, basically, that it's "beautifully right" to think that a weapon designed to destroy humans could... well... destroy humans? Hard to argue with that, I suppose. I'm just not sure "beautiful" is the word I'd choose. "Appropriate," perhaps. "Logical," maybe. (But I might go with "self-evident.")
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 23, 2016 17:53:17 GMT
not how I remembered it, but here they are So S1E1 was not a spiral. Looks a bit like Sansa's necklace when she went all BlackWidow. Good catch on the necklace! I was wondering about the scene where Jon and Mance come upon those dead horse heads. In particular what exactly does Mance know that we don't? His line about 'them' being 'always the artists' now seems much more freighted with meaning. Who is talking about? The Others or the CotF. While it's not shown in the show, in the books Stannis has a long conversation with Mance before they execute him, and Stannis says something to the effect of having learned much and more from the King Beyond the Wall. Hmm. Here's the clip of the group coming upon the spiral of heads from season 3. www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJm8Ir6shrA
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 23, 2016 17:58:23 GMT
I just had another thought about the warding on the cave and how being touched by the Night's King broke the warding on the cave. If Bran goes behind the Wall, as I said last night, them is this how the Others will breach the Wall? I wonder if it has anything to do with Bran and Co entering the north through the Black Gate? How so? I'm not getting the connection here? If they'd gone through the gate or over the Wall how would that make a difference? It's the mark left on Bran I was referring to. If he goes south of the Wall, by any means, and the NK now has a connection to him, then the NK can get past the wards on the Wall.
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Post by Melifeather on May 23, 2016 18:00:21 GMT
Am I missing the beauty? Or is that sentence more or less just redundant? Didn't he just say, basically, that it's "beautifully right" to think that a weapon designed to destroy humans could... well... destroy humans? Right! I think he's confused. He could have said something along that line if the Others were created to protect mankind, but now they're their biggest threat.
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Post by snowfyre on May 23, 2016 18:04:48 GMT
Right! I think he's confused. Well, he certainly sounds confused.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 23, 2016 18:07:57 GMT
Following up on my last comment... (this started as an edit, but then I realized it was getting long): That's " Inside the Episode" chat is interesting for other reasons, as well. One of which is a particular phrase (underlined below) that I think is much less convincing that Weiss wanted it to sound: - "The Night King, who's sort of the embodiment of absolute evil. What you're watching is the creation of this absolute evil, so the absolute evil isn't absolute after all. No one's innocent, really, in this world. And there's just something, really, beautifully right about the idea that the great nemeses of mankind were created to protect the children of the forest from mankind."
Am I missing the beauty? Or is that sentence more or less just redundant? Didn't he just say, basically, that it's "beautifully right" to think that a weapon designed to destroy humans could... well... destroy humans? Hard to argue with that, I suppose. I'm just not sure "beautiful" is the word I'd choose. "Appropriate," perhaps. "Logical," maybe. (But I might go with "self-evident.") Ya know I had a very similar thought when I heard him say that as well. I thought 'well, where's the symmetry in that?' If mankind had made the Others, then yes, there would be both beautifully right, and it would prove there is no absolute evil, because mankind's greatest nemesis would be, well, mankind. The way it's presented is a straight out-and-out use of mankind as the Children's weapon against mankind. Enemy versus enemy, not a bite the hand that feeds you type of thing at all. This is why I don't trust much of what these guy say, they come across as not having much grasp of their own material, let alone Martin's.
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Post by Melifeather on May 23, 2016 18:09:34 GMT
Just checked in Heresy and the current followers are asking BC to start a Heresy thread in the HBO show area! They said they want a thread that combines the show and books together. I'll bet E & L would love that!
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Post by freyfamilyreunion on May 23, 2016 18:20:15 GMT
Glad folks enjoyed the episode. I'm still not watching... but I've taken to reading episode summaries to find out where D&D are taking things. Sounds to me like this latest installment was fun for viewers, but it ALSO seems clear that D&D have been left to their own devices on solving Martin's big mysteries. In fact, I'd almost say the show just "went all World book," in the sense that it's hard not to believe the writers are pulling their ideas off fan boards at this point. I mean... "Hodor" ~ "Hold the door?" That was just a bad joke among fans before last night. (Not to put down the show - I'm impressed to hear people say they were moved by Hodor's final fate. D&D made it work.) Anyway. In the books there's simply no way the CotF end up being responsible for the Others. And I think, ultimately, the chance of the show spoiling Martin's larger story/mysteries turns out to be quite small. Yea, if memory serves, the hold the door "theory" started out as a troll thread probably inspired by a fairly racist joke.
It would be kind of funny if the show writers were just stealing theories from the forums to wrap the show up. Perhaps Black Crow should get a writer's credit.
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Post by Melifeather on May 23, 2016 20:27:40 GMT
BC has actually agreed to start a new Heresy thread in the show section!
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 24, 2016 0:56:35 GMT
Euron is massively underwhelming. Euron (to 20 guys, on a barren island): Chop down trees and build me 1,000 ships! Also I think D&D are obsessed with dicks. Melifeather , I hope you noticed that Euron gasping for air paralleled Jon? I was like, w00t
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Post by Melifeather on May 24, 2016 1:22:43 GMT
Euron is massively underwhelming. Euron (to 20 guys, on a barren island): Chop down trees and build me 1,000 ships! Also I think D&D are obsessed with dicks. Melifeather , I hope you noticed that Euron gasping for air paralleled Jon? I was like, w00t They spent too much time looking for an actor to look like he was related to Theon that they didn't find one more compelling, or at least one that scares me, because I think Euron is supposed to be scary, or at least intimidating. This is a man that his brothers, in particular Victarion, wanted to kill! The resuscitation part was weird, because in the books Damphair does blow air into their lungs and the followers move their arms and legs, BUT if they were trying to make a parallel with Jon to show that it's the wind that's resuscitating them, then I guess it makes sense to do it the way they did.
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 24, 2016 1:36:30 GMT
Euron is massively underwhelming. Euron (to 20 guys, on a barren island): Chop down trees and build me 1,000 ships! Also I think D&D are obsessed with dicks. Melifeather , I hope you noticed that Euron gasping for air paralleled Jon? I was like, w00t Totally agree. The Iron Isles is lacking. I almost lost hope for the episode.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 24, 2016 1:37:34 GMT
Euron is supposed to be scary, or at least intimidating. Yeah, I expected him to be intense, showEuron is a bit of a joke. I just rewatched. Bran might just end up in the Winterfell crypts, under the heart tree. That would be something else for Jon to find eh? Also, Hodor and Lyanna had a moment last week. Heh. If only I could decipher what they said. And why would the Night's King find BR or Bran threatening?
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 24, 2016 1:40:39 GMT
I think Euron is supposed to be scary, or at least intimidating. This is a man that his brothers, in particular Victarion, wanted to kill Yeah, I was expecting a more menacing Euron.
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Post by Maester Flagons on May 24, 2016 2:24:45 GMT
speaking of old gods, did you check out the Small Details thread I made? THERE IS A WEIRWOOD IN THE HALL OF FACES.) Are we sure BRAN was warging Hodor? That almost looked like NotBloodraven creating a shitstorm of a paradox on Bran's behalf. Totally missed the weirwood face. It makes a certain sense that it would be there at the HoBaW. 'Ye old gods are dead?' The tree face in the hall of faces though, I think that could be a replacement for Arya's wolf dreams. *The tree that sees her as Nymeria*
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