Far-Fetched Theories, and Those Who Must Be Taken Seriously
Sept 16, 2016 16:03:14 GMT
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Post by jnr on Sept 16, 2016 16:03:14 GMT
I read an interesting post on Westeros today, in a thread about whether Dany is really Aerys and Rhaella's daughter, about implausible theories.
Chuckled at that, and thought I'd point out how well many of its ideas apply to R+L=J and other commonly-accepted theories. (But not there, of course -- that site is full of brainwashing.)
From Westeros, we have:
Well, that's familiar. I just experienced this very same thing recently dealing with Kingmonkey, who thinks that Lyanna's objections to Robert had nothing to do with marriage.
But the text is incredibly simple and direct on this subject:
She wanted a faithful husband. She didn't think Robert would be one. Nothing Ned said changed her mind.
Well, that's the simplest thing in the world. The reason Kingmonkey had to resort to his bizarre contortions is obvious: Lyanna would also have rejected Rhaegar, as an even worse bet as faithful husbands go, because he was already married! He obviously would not have been keeping to one bed either.
Yet all of R+L=J is fundamentally based on the idea that Rhaegar did not keep to one bed after he got married. Naturally, true believers of that theory can't tolerate having that uncomfortable fact shoved in front of them on a plate.
Like...
1. Rhaegar found the KotLT and unmasked Lyanna (because it was her) and they fell in love
2. They planned the fake abduction because they'd both lost their minds and couldn't foresee any consequences
3. They went a thousand miles south to the TOJ, leaving behind nobody who remembered their passing
4. As the war raged, they didn't notice or care -- too busy banging
5. When Rhaegar's father burned Lyanna's father alive and killed Lyanna's brother, Lyanna didn't care -- just kept banging Rhaegar
6. Lyanna's basic nature as a creature of action (cf. KotLT story in which she rescues Howland) was irrelevant -- she was more interested in staying in a tower
7. Elia had no problem with any of this -- it was important for Rhaegar to have another child -- and that's how Rhaegar remains honorable (because he got her permission)
8. Lyanna also had no problem with Rhaegar's existing marriage and children, because of Targaryen polygamy that was nonexistent for the previous two hundred years, which meant he married her too, and that's how Rhaegar treated her honorably
Etc, etc, etc, all simply imagined by true believers of the theory even though it flat-out contradicts the text in various ways.
I think if you look at the list of items 1- that I wrote above, it's clear that standard R+L=J is in fact fanfiction.
They contort their reasoning into even more complicated knots.
Yes, it is, and always was. Hidden Heir was the most obvious plot twist GRRM could possibly have written into the series at the time the series was imagined and developed.
In which case the Hound can't possibly be the gravedigger, and Aegon must be who he thinks he is -- Rhaegar's son.
It's just hilarious watching as the brainwashing continues to play out, year after year, and I have no idea how these people are going to cope when the RLJ Doom strikes.
Chuckled at that, and thought I'd point out how well many of its ideas apply to R+L=J and other commonly-accepted theories. (But not there, of course -- that site is full of brainwashing.)
From Westeros, we have:
when details don't reconcile with the point they're trying to make they decide that what the text actually says means something entirely different to what is written on the page
Well, that's familiar. I just experienced this very same thing recently dealing with Kingmonkey, who thinks that Lyanna's objections to Robert had nothing to do with marriage.
But the text is incredibly simple and direct on this subject:
"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature."
She wanted a faithful husband. She didn't think Robert would be one. Nothing Ned said changed her mind.
Well, that's the simplest thing in the world. The reason Kingmonkey had to resort to his bizarre contortions is obvious: Lyanna would also have rejected Rhaegar, as an even worse bet as faithful husbands go, because he was already married! He obviously would not have been keeping to one bed either.
Yet all of R+L=J is fundamentally based on the idea that Rhaegar did not keep to one bed after he got married. Naturally, true believers of that theory can't tolerate having that uncomfortable fact shoved in front of them on a plate.
And I'm really not over-thinking anything. That's my point - in order to come up with an even remotely possible scenario, a lot of missing info has to be pulled out of thin air.
Like...
1. Rhaegar found the KotLT and unmasked Lyanna (because it was her) and they fell in love
2. They planned the fake abduction because they'd both lost their minds and couldn't foresee any consequences
3. They went a thousand miles south to the TOJ, leaving behind nobody who remembered their passing
4. As the war raged, they didn't notice or care -- too busy banging
5. When Rhaegar's father burned Lyanna's father alive and killed Lyanna's brother, Lyanna didn't care -- just kept banging Rhaegar
6. Lyanna's basic nature as a creature of action (cf. KotLT story in which she rescues Howland) was irrelevant -- she was more interested in staying in a tower
7. Elia had no problem with any of this -- it was important for Rhaegar to have another child -- and that's how Rhaegar remains honorable (because he got her permission)
8. Lyanna also had no problem with Rhaegar's existing marriage and children, because of Targaryen polygamy that was nonexistent for the previous two hundred years, which meant he married her too, and that's how Rhaegar treated her honorably
Etc, etc, etc, all simply imagined by true believers of the theory even though it flat-out contradicts the text in various ways.
people demand that every theory should have equal respect based on fan fiction. That's what's frustrating to me.
I think if you look at the list of items 1- that I wrote above, it's clear that standard R+L=J is in fact fanfiction.
Then we get accused of being narrow-minded because we're not prepared to contort our reasoning into such complicated knots.
They contort their reasoning into even more complicated knots.
GRRM laid the clues about R+L=J and some picked them up on the first read. Most didn't (including me). But that's not enough - now that the theory is widely known, suddenly it's too simple. It really isn't.
Yes, it is, and always was. Hidden Heir was the most obvious plot twist GRRM could possibly have written into the series at the time the series was imagined and developed.
And all these twists turn the story into a ridiculous soap opera, where every second character is either back from the dead or not who they think they are.
In which case the Hound can't possibly be the gravedigger, and Aegon must be who he thinks he is -- Rhaegar's son.
It's just hilarious watching as the brainwashing continues to play out, year after year, and I have no idea how these people are going to cope when the RLJ Doom strikes.
