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Post by Melifeather on Apr 1, 2016 16:03:57 GMT
Interesting thoughts min. I'll have to let them percolate in my mind a bit to see if I can contribute, but your words made me think that maybe the west end of the Wall has been stitched shut with crooked stitches?
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Post by min on Apr 3, 2016 20:58:02 GMT
Arya to the waif, "My sentences are as crooked as my stitches used to be." This is when she begins to learn the Braavos language as a novice in the HoBaW. Crooked sentences and the wall as an amplifier of magic. Here's what Melisandre says in DwD: She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. ****** Melisandre touched the ruby at her neck and spoke a word.
The sound echoed queerly from the corners of the room and twisted like a worm inside their ears. The wildling heard one word, the crow another. Neither was the word that left her lips. The ruby on the wildling's wrist darkened, and the wisps of light and shadow around him writhed and faded.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 3, 2016 23:19:34 GMT
Indeed, it's one in the same. It's curious that the kindly old man and the greenseer are sewn together after a fashion and that Jaqen mentions R'hllor first and the many faced god second; when he admonishes Arya for blaming the gods for Ned's death. The rest are insignificant. In a larger sense, drinking from the fountain of fire or ice unbalances the world. Getting back to this again - was thinking more on the balancing and the drinking from cups of ice and fire. Touching on one of my Marvel threads for a sec without going into too much messy detail, there is an arc in which the protagonist and antagonist are battling for control of the universe, basically, and the antagonist taunts the hero by saying, "You cannot be both the preserver and the destroyer in the same aspect, Strange! You cannot be Shiva and Vishnu with the same sweep of the hand!" In other words, he has to choose to be good or bad, black or white, in order to fight the demon...he has to take a side. So that brought me to the whole idea of ice and fire in the series: ice preserves, fire consumes. You can't do both, have both at the same time. I wonder if this is what the Undying were trying to impart to Dany with the statement "Drink from the cup of ice; drink from the cup of fire." She has to choose. She went on to park herself in Meereen trying to play both roles - preserver/destroyer - at once, but it clearly isn't working. She needs to remember who she is: Mother of Dragons, Daughter of Death, Bride of Fire. Dany is destined to drink from the cup of fire. JON SNOW has drunk from the cup of ice - HE is the the protector. Here are our two heads - the preserver and the destroyer. That leaves the middle head, the transitional element that maintains the balance between the two. What is that? Who is that? Given the other vision from the HotU of Rhaegar with baby Aegon, noting "HIS is the song of ice and fire" and "the dragon has three heads", I think that this indicates that Aegon was thought to be the middle head, the head that balanced the other two....so if anyone is a combination of those elements, it would have been him.
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Post by min on Apr 3, 2016 23:31:35 GMT
Getting back to this again - was thinking more on the balancing and the drinking from cups of ice and fire. Touching on one of my Marvel threads for a sec without going into too much messy detail, there is an arc in which the protagonist and antagonist are battling for control of the universe, basically, and the antagonist taunts the hero by saying, "You cannot be both the preserver and the destroyer in the same aspect, Strange! You cannot be Shiva and Vishnu with the same sweep of the hand!" In other words, he has to choose to be good or bad, black or white, in order to fight the demon...he has to take a side. So that brought me to the whole idea of ice and fire in the series: ice preserves, fire consumes. You can't do both, have both at the same time. I wonder if this is what the Undying were trying to impart to Dany with the statement "Drink from the cup of ice; drink from the cup of fire." She has to choose. She went on to park herself in Meereen trying to play both roles - preserver/destroyer - at once, but it clearly isn't working. She needs to remember who she is: Mother of Dragons, Daughter of Death, Bride of Fire. Dany is destined to drink from the cup of fire. JON SNOW has drunk from the cup of ice - HE is the the protector. Here are our two heads - the preserver and the destroyer. That leaves the middle head, the transitional element that maintains the balance between the two. What is that? Who is that? Given the other vision from the HotU of Rhaegar with baby Aegon, noting "HIS is the song of ice and fire" and "the dragon has three heads", I think that this indicates that Aegon was thought to be the middle head, the head that balanced the other two....so if anyone is a combination of those elements, it would have been him. That's wonderful. For some reason, Tyrion comes to mind. Recalling that Maester Aemon regrets that he is not able to advise Dany; he says the dragon needs 3 heads. Going back to Penny's story of the dwarf sacrifice; only the head is missing. Is Tyrion the missing head? LOL! Then there is Tyrion's Janus dream while one head destroys; the other weeps.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 3, 2016 23:47:54 GMT
Going back to Penny's story of the dwarf sacrifice; only the head is missing. Is Tyrion the missing head? LOL! Then there is the Tyrion's Janus dream while one head destroys; the other weeps. That's what I'm thinking...going back to GRRM's statement of the three heads not necessarily all being Targaryens. And this is interesting, because Tyrion is the oldest of the trio - another thing that tells me that Aegon was destined to be the middle head, but since he died, Tyrion will be the replacement that serves in Aegon's stead. (This also works in well with Tyrion being GRRM's favorite character.) That leads to the question: why Tyrion? What's the connection? A parentage thing?
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Post by min on Apr 4, 2016 0:17:36 GMT
Going back to Penny's story of the dwarf sacrifice; only the head is missing. Is Tyrion the missing head? LOL! Then there is the Tyrion's Janus dream while one head destroys; the other weeps. That's what I'm thinking...going back to GRRM's statement of the three heads not necessarily all being Targaryens. And this is interesting, because Tyrion is the oldest of the trio - another thing that tells me that Aegon was destined to be the middle head, but since he died, Tyrion will be the replacement that serves in Aegon's stead. (This also works in well with Tyrion being GRRM's favorite character.) That leads to the question: why Tyrion? What's the connection? A parentage thing? I think Tyrion is the slayer of lies. I don't know if this has something to do with blood but recall Bran's vision of the golden man. Maybe this is Tyrion and not Jaimie. The forging of Lightbringer requires the heart of a lion. I don't mean this literally. Tyrion is being compelled by some force recalling the bar sinister that drives him across the sea. That he is also associated with the drunken god as depicted by the ash tree; I think says that he has to find the balance in some way. He advised Jon at the Wall and I expect the same with Dany. A curious side note... Peter Dinklage played a character called Simon Bar Sinister en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Bar_Sinister
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 4, 2016 0:32:23 GMT
recall Bran's vision of the golden man. Maybe this is Tyrion and not Jaimie. Perhaps...although I'm leaning toward Tyrion perhaps being another figure from that vision: "There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood." We already have the multitude of references to Tyrion being a "giant" and a "gargoyle" (stone), and if you go back through AGOT there are about 10 other statements that reference him one day losing his tongue. (A pet foreshadowing of mine: he will indeed lose it at some point. Mocking Dany the way Ilyn Payne mocked Aerys by discussing the power of Tywin Lannister? I don't know...but that dwarf tongue is a goner!) Anyway, he's already lost a nose, so once facial part already gone; should a tongue follow, there won't be much left under a visor. Or, "thick black blood" could be part of the "Tyrion is a secret Targ" conspiracy. I've almost fully resigned myself to that being true, honestly.
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Post by min on Apr 4, 2016 0:42:21 GMT
Oh my god! Losing the nose is bad enough. I don't want to contemplate losing the tongue.
...Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood."
That's an interesting alternate explanation. Nothing is ever as it seems.
I think I'll leave the Hinges for now and read your Marvelous threads tomorrow. I don't have a clue about comics after 1965; but I'm highly entertained!
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 4, 2016 0:51:59 GMT
Please do! It's dense, but a lot of fun once you get into it.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 4, 2016 0:57:03 GMT
I can totally see Tyrion as a son of Aerys, but I'm not convinced Aegon is a fake... Well, a dragon by any other name would smell as burnt. The hinges though, they are not part of Aegon's or Tyrion's story. Tyrion did visit the Wall but came away with nothing that I can recall. Anyway, the three heads of the dragon, I think, are connected to the body of Westeros. It doesn't matter that the three heads are not all Targ heads. I'm totally on board with the PTWP and the dragon-has-three-heads prophecies belonging to Westeros; the lesser 'dragony' continent.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Apr 4, 2016 14:57:25 GMT
Dany is destined to drink from the cup of fire. JON SNOW has drunk from the cup of ice - HE is the the protector. Quoting myself as I remembered somewhere else that I wanted to go with this whole "cups" thing, and it was to this quote: So Brandon was to drink from the cup of ice, but died. Ned never wanted to drink from it, and didn't....he held it in his hands but never brought it to his lips. Ned tried to remain neutral and also died for it. Now, JON instinctively grabbed the cup of ice with both hands and took a HUGE swig, albeit not fully understanding exactly WHAT he was drinking down. That being said...I wonder what this means regarding the connection between Jon and Brandon?
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Post by min on Apr 4, 2016 16:17:33 GMT
Dany is destined to drink from the cup of fire. JON SNOW has drunk from the cup of ice - HE is the the protector. Quoting myself as I remembered somewhere else that I wanted to go with this whole "cups" thing, and it was to this quote: So Brandon was to drink from the cup of ice, but died. Ned never wanted to drink from it, and didn't....he held it in his hands but never brought it to his lips. Ned tried to remain neutral and also died for it. Now, JON instinctively grabbed the cup of ice with both hands and took a HUGE swig, albeit not fully understanding exactly WHAT he was drinking down. That being said...I wonder what this means regarding the connection between Jon and Brandon? I don't know about Brandon Sr. I've entertained the idea that if anyone is his bastard son; it would be Ramsey Snow the anti-Stark. Lady Barbrey has a strange obsession with avenging herself on Ned. Perhaps Ramsey is her son and Ned wouldn't recognize him as Brandon Sr's bastard. Bran's vision of a pregnant woman vowing revenge comes to mind. I could see her cooking up a scheme to foist the child on Roose Bolton. Lady Barbrey has an uncommon interest in Ramsey. I'm in the Ned and Ashara camp as far as Jon's lineage. IF the palestone sword comes into play, then Jon would be the only legitimate claimant to the cup of ice. You mentioned that you thought Bloodraven and the 3 eyed crow were separate entities. I go with that as well. Also the prince that was promised and AA as two separate characters. When you have been waiting for someone for 200 years; that sounds like a promise to me. Bran is a prince of Winterfell. So is Jon. Born amidst smoke and salt; Bran tastes the salty tear as he passes through the black gate and Jon is left lying in a pool of smoking blood. Those are the conditions for the prophecy. I can only imagine that Bran will be responsible for Jon's rebirth.
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 4, 2016 16:28:37 GMT
I've changed the way I look at some of these prophecies since digging deep into the Wheel of Time theory. Quaithe's instructions to Dany for instance about going south to go north and east to go west...these are directions on how to navigate the altered wheel of time.
The parallels, echoes, and inversions that we've noticed are our clues that the "Cyvasse" has been setup with the game pieces in different places. The clues about smoke and salt may not apply the same now that the flip has occurred. It would be interesting to try to find an inverted or mirrored parallel. If the Targaryens expected the smoke and salt to apply to them, they actually would now apply to the Greyjoys/Ironborn.
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Post by min on Apr 4, 2016 16:43:28 GMT
I've changed the way I look at some of these prophecies since digging deep into the Wheel of Time theory. Quaithe's instructions to Dany for instance about going south to go north and east to go west...these are directions on how to navigate the altered wheel of time. The parallels, echoes, and inversions that we've noticed are our clues that the "Cyvasse" has been setup with the game pieces in different places. The clues about smoke and salt may not apply the same now that the flip has occurred. It would be interesting to try to find an inverted or mirrored parallel. If the Targaryens expected the smoke and salt to apply to them, they actually would now apply to the Greyjoys/Ironborn. Is there an inversion for the 3 heads of the dragon to the 3 heads of the wolf? Does Cerberus fit in here somewhere?
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 4, 2016 16:54:44 GMT
I haven't gotten far enough into the 30 chapters to confirm which family is reliving the Starks. Twice Lady Glover seemed to be Lyanna's parallel, but so was "little Myrcella".
I don't know what or who Cerberus is.
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