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Post by min on Apr 26, 2016 18:35:35 GMT
So I wonder what she knows about what Mance knows. This is why I think the horn she burned was a fake replaced by the great horn used on the wall. I think she absolutely knows more about what Mance is up to. And this is why I think they kept Mance-glamored-as-Tormund a secret for all this time in the show. They needed the "glamor is possibly" reveal for a more important moment. And I agree the horn was a fake! I did not see that coming. Excellent!
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Post by min on Apr 26, 2016 18:46:54 GMT
But I still have trouble thinking that someone other than Rhaegar was killed by Robert. I think Rhaegar was killed at the Trident, but I don't think it was Rhaegar that kidnapped Lyanna. I believe Robert Baratheon wore Rhaegar's armor while Rhaegar was away in Dorne, but people believed it was him, because they saw the armor. I'm conflicted as to who wore the armor at the tourney of Harrenhall. It is possible that Robert wore it there also with Rhaegar's permission. Rhaegar was noted as being at the tourney and participating in the singing contest, so if Robert had the armor then Rhaegar allowed it. This would solve two questions: 1) how did he get the armor, and 2)if he was involved in a plot, then this would plant the seed and begin the rumor that Rhaegar had an interest in Lyanna. That's a twist I haven't heard before. This story is so darn twisty. LOL
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 26, 2016 19:04:04 GMT
why I think they kept Mance-glamored-as-Tormund a secret for all this time in the show. Do you think the show will actually bring Mance back in? That's a twist I haven't heard before. This story is so darn twisty. LOL You'll have to read my chapter analysis of The Queenmaker. It's long, but it details the plot to kidnap Lyanna.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 26, 2016 19:31:14 GMT
Do you think the show will actually bring Mance back in? Mance never left, he's Tormund now But in all seriousness, yes. Watch Mance's last scene with Jon and the language he uses, then watch Jon's scenes afterwards with Tormund, who uses the same language (my people, etc.). Also Tormund (Mance) killing Rattleshirt, and Tormund (Mance) explaining to the wildlings why Jon killed him (Mance).
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 26, 2016 19:39:28 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since we've never actually gotten confirmation that rubies=glamours in the novels When Mance was glamored to look like Rattleshirt he wore an iron cuff with a great square-cut ruby, and when Melisandre spoke softly in a strange tongue the ruby at her throat throbbed slowly and the stone on his cuff was brightening and darkening as well. Stannis's fiery sword also had a square cut ruby on the handle, and could have been used to create the appearance of flames.
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Post by Melifeather on Apr 26, 2016 19:40:49 GMT
Do you think the show will actually bring Mance back in? Mance never left, he's Tormund now But in all seriousness, yes. Watch Mance's last scene with Jon and the language he uses, then watch Jon's scenes afterwards with Tormund, who uses the same language (my people, etc.). Also Tormund (Mance) killing Rattleshirt, and Tormund (Mance) explaining to the wildlings why Jon killed him (Mance). That would make me happy if Tormund was Mance.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 27, 2016 0:04:43 GMT
The glamour, yes it depends on the eye of the beholder, but only to small degree. If everyone sees Mel as a beautiful young woman with a heart shaped face then there must be much more to it than the perception of others. And how much of her art is pyromancy, suggestion (hypnosis). She says her power is stronger at the Wall; her voice and word more powerful. But she weaves the light of Stannis sword, her glamor, Mance and Rattleshirt's glamor and I suspect the horn she burned was also glamored. I just rewatched the bathtub scene and there is def some mumbo jumbo going on. Mel asks Selyse to get a "blue vial" and she sprinkles it around and breathes it in. The whole scene is about the deceptions and lies she uses, she literally explains it to Selyse. D&D may have known exactly what they were doing. If she had worn the necklace in that scene, it would have called attention to it, and there would have been speculation among the TV only audience about what it means, etc. Possibly she's able to create a glamour for a short period of time without the necklace, or by some other tricks. First, I don't remember the bath scene. Was that season 4? I think this quote from the kindly man could help. Now this is Faceless Man stuff, but I think it hits close to the topic. These magics have similar workings.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 27, 2016 0:14:35 GMT
Season 4 Ep 7
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 27, 2016 0:27:05 GMT
Bath scene explained... Wasn't there a rumor that Shiera bathed in the blood of maidens?
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 27, 2016 1:13:00 GMT
Never watched season 4.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 1:34:25 GMT
Overall I really liked the first episode. Given the deaths of the Martells in the Show it really makes me think that in the books Doran's plans are going to get crushed and he will be experiencing some of his own "Fire and Blood"
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Post by Weasel Pie on Apr 27, 2016 2:03:11 GMT
are you planning to see it?
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Post by Ser Duncan on Apr 27, 2016 2:46:52 GMT
Heh, that was the beginning of the end. I think that season was the one that most annoyed me most due to little changes to canon. D&D took iconic lines in the books, and for reasons best known to themselves, changed them for their own inanities.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Apr 27, 2016 3:42:00 GMT
It is possible that I would watch season 4. This past Sunday is the first time I have watched television in five months. I've seen some of the first three seasons (DVD and netflix) and about half of the fifth season I watched on Sunday. In other words, I am practically a newb to the show. Overall, I would say that the show version is like watching a reflection of a passing cloud in a murky pond. The cloud will move to the other side of the pond, eventually, but where the cloud looked like a rabbit in the reflection, it will look to be a horned head surrounded by sheep when I look up.
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Post by wolfmaid7 on May 1, 2016 18:31:32 GMT
I can't watch it this season in totality but....Dang from what you guys are reporting shit happened!!!!
1.So it has been revealed that Melissandre is a an old lady ..HAHAHA. So it seems the Ruby glamored idea is where the SR have gone as well.That is one theory i believe to be true.
2. So am i getting this right Tristan and Doran are Dead...Way to waste Dr Bashad as a character. You all not pulling legs right? Doran is really dead?
3.So Jon is dead as a door nail? No seeing through Ghost's eyes or nothing?
Lady Melissandre you proposed and answer to something i've been thinking about.It may be wrong or i may have missed this in the text completely.We know from Ned's POV that Robert was unhorsing men left and right in the Melee at the Tourney.But does anyone know who beat Robert?
I had to recheck this.Ned said Robert was jesting with Arryn when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna so it defintely wasn't him,but this is smething we discussed on Heresy.Maybe the armour made him seem better than he really was.It gace him a visual edge over opponents.
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