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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 16:08:12 GMT
I freely admit that this is a total rip-off of Elio and Linda's discussion, which I will supply at the bottom. It's a fascinating subject and I think it could be interesting to discuss. There seems to be slight differences in how people are resurrected. Please keep any discussion of number 6 in spoiler tags since it's a S6 topic. 1) Drogo Ingredients: stallion sacrificed. Did the death of Rhaego have an effect, or did Dany's presence in the tent screw up the ritual? Blood sacrifice was used, but could the blood of a horse be expected to give human consciousness back? 2) Patchface Ingredients: drowned at sea, resuscitated seemingly by no one. No blood sacrifice used. After resurrection he had prophetic abilities.3) Beric Dondarrion & Catelyn Stark Ingredients: both given a "fiery kiss" No blood sacrifice was used other than their own blood. Only partial consciousness returned, but they are not themselves.4) wights Ingredients: not really resurrected, more like puppets5) Coldhands Ingredients: seems to have been given his consciousness back. Unknown how resurrected. 6) Jon Snow Ingredients: preserved by being held in ice cold room, mummers version showed death rites, but no fiery kiss No blood sacrifice other than his own blood. Seems to have been given his consciousness back Video inside spoiler
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 16:50:58 GMT
I spoilered No. 6 due to it containing season six information. If it makes the discussion too tedious due to constantly having to spoiler comments, we can just move this whole thread to the Season Six board. Up to you Melifeather.
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 16:53:06 GMT
I spoilered No. 6 due to it containing season six information. If it makes the discussion too tedious due to constantly having to spoiler comments, we can just move this whole thread to the Season Six board. Up to you Melifeather . Oops! That was my bad. I don't think the spoiler is too awkward. Lets leave it here. Thank you for having my back once again!
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 17:08:13 GMT
Ok that's great because there was something I wanted to bring about No. 6... When Mel does the ritual funereal rites on Jon's body, we have to assume this is what Thoros did to Beric. At the very least Thoros would've had to have said the same prayer the all Red lot use in their final rites for the dead. So, if it's just the power of the words, like casting a spell, then why does Beric say he awoke with the taste of ashes in his mouth? Did the mummers show leave out the part where the priest/ess kisses the corpse? I thought Thoros actually kissed Beric as part of the ritual, like a final good bye.
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 17:23:51 GMT
Ok that's great because there was something I wanted to bring about No. 6... When Mel does the ritual funereal rites on Jon's body, we have to assume this is what Thoros did to Beric. At the very least Thoros would've had to have said the same prayer the all Red lot use in their final rites for the dead. So, if it's just the power of the words, like casting a spell, then why does Beric say he awoke with the taste of ashes in his mouth? Did the mummers show leave out the part where the priest/ess kisses the corpse? I thought Thoros actually kissed Beric as part of the ritual, like a final good bye. (in the book) Thoro says he gave Beric the "fiery kiss" and blew fire down his throat. And when Beric rose Catelyn he gave her the kiss as well. Melisandre never gave Jon the fiery kiss, that is why I don't believe she was responsible for raising him.
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 17:41:26 GMT
Would it be easier to give a spoiler warning in the thread topic? Melisandre says that her 'word' is more powerful at the Wall. Doesn't Dondarrion hang out near the God's Eye?
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 15, 2016 17:53:04 GMT
I freely admit that this is a total rip-off of Elio and Linda's discussion, which I will supply at the bottom. It's a fascinating subject and I think it could be interesting to discuss. There seems to be slight differences in how people are resurrected. Please keep any discussion of number 6 in spoiler tags since it's a S6 topic. 1) Drogo Ingredients: stallion sacrificed. Did the death of Rhaego have an effect, or did Dany's presence in the tent screw up the ritual? Blood sacrifice was used, but could the blood of a horse be expected to give human consciousness back? 2) Patchface Ingredients: drowned at sea, resuscitated seemingly by no one. No blood sacrifice used. After resurrection he had prophetic abilities.3) Beric Dondarrion & Catelyn Stark Ingredients: both given a "fiery kiss" No blood sacrifice was used other than their own blood. Only partial consciousness returned, but they are not themselves.4) wights Ingredients: not really resurrected, more like puppets5) Coldhands Ingredients: seems to have been given his consciousness back. Unknown how resurrected. 6) Jon Snow Ingredients: preserved by being held in ice cold room, mummers version showed death rites, but no fiery kiss No blood sacrifice other than his own blood. Seems to have been given his consciousness back Video inside spoiler
+Ser Robert Strong? +Dragon Eggs? technically +Varamyr? Would having a Second Life after the death of your birth-body count?
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 17:57:05 GMT
I freely admit that this is a total rip-off of Elio and Linda's discussion, which I will supply at the bottom. It's a fascinating subject and I think it could be interesting to discuss. There seems to be slight differences in how people are resurrected. Please keep any discussion of number 6 in spoiler tags since it's a S6 topic. 1) Drogo Ingredients: stallion sacrificed. Did the death of Rhaego have an effect, or did Dany's presence in the tent screw up the ritual? Blood sacrifice was used, but could the blood of a horse be expected to give human consciousness back? 2) Patchface Ingredients: drowned at sea, resuscitated seemingly by no one. No blood sacrifice used. After resurrection he had prophetic abilities.3) Beric Dondarrion & Catelyn Stark Ingredients: both given a "fiery kiss" No blood sacrifice was used other than their own blood. Only partial consciousness returned, but they are not themselves.4) wights Ingredients: not really resurrected, more like puppets5) Coldhands Ingredients: seems to have been given his consciousness back. Unknown how resurrected. 6) Jon Snow Ingredients: preserved by being held in ice cold room, mummers version showed death rites, but no fiery kiss No blood sacrifice other than his own blood. Seems to have been given his consciousness back Video inside spoiler
+Ser Robert Strong? +Dragon Eggs? technically +Varamyr? Would having a Second Life after the death of your birth-body count? + Davos - drowned and thrown up on a rock - he has visions of ashes floating up and snow falling down - reminds me a bit of Patchface
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 17:58:06 GMT
I freely admit that this is a total rip-off of Elio and Linda's discussion, which I will supply at the bottom. It's a fascinating subject and I think it could be interesting to discuss. There seems to be slight differences in how people are resurrected. Please keep any discussion of number 6 in spoiler tags since it's a S6 topic. 1) Drogo Ingredients: stallion sacrificed. Did the death of Rhaego have an effect, or did Dany's presence in the tent screw up the ritual? Blood sacrifice was used, but could the blood of a horse be expected to give human consciousness back? 2) Patchface Ingredients: drowned at sea, resuscitated seemingly by no one. No blood sacrifice used. After resurrection he had prophetic abilities.3) Beric Dondarrion & Catelyn Stark Ingredients: both given a "fiery kiss" No blood sacrifice was used other than their own blood. Only partial consciousness returned, but they are not themselves.4) wights Ingredients: not really resurrected, more like puppets5) Coldhands Ingredients: seems to have been given his consciousness back. Unknown how resurrected. 6) Jon Snow Ingredients: preserved by being held in ice cold room, mummers version showed death rites, but no fiery kiss No blood sacrifice other than his own blood. Seems to have been given his consciousness back Video inside spoiler
+Ser Robert Strong? +Dragon Eggs? technically +Varamyr? Would having a Second Life after the death of your birth-body count? Oh yes, I forgot them. What was different or same about their resurrections? Elio and Linda suggested that Ser Robert Strong was or is continuously kept alive with the women Cersei sends to Qyburn.
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Post by Weasel Pie on May 15, 2016 17:59:14 GMT
Robert Strong - possibly poisoned by Oberyn, and had a head transplant? Not sure what Qyburn does to keep him animated, but yes, probably involved blood.
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 18:01:16 GMT
+Ser Robert Strong? +Dragon Eggs? technically +Varamyr? Would having a Second Life after the death of your birth-body count? Oh yes, I forgot them. What was different or same about their resurrections? Elio and Linda suggested that Ser Robert Strong was or is continuously kept alive with the women Cersei sends to Qyburn. Reminds me of the Undying feeding off of Dany's life force. They need a continual supply?
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 18:04:15 GMT
Coldhands - killed long ago and saved from wightification by the wall - soul reinstated and exhiled beyond the wall?
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Post by Melifeather on May 15, 2016 18:10:57 GMT
Coldhands - killed long ago and saved from wightification by the wall - soul reinstated and exhiled beyond the wall? There is something different about Coldhands than both the wights and Beric and Catelyn in that he seems to have retained his humanity. He helped Sam and Gilly safely to the Black Gate, and he helped Bran, Hodor, Jojen, and Meera find the 3EC/Bloodraven, and he fed them "wild boar". Beric was sent by Ned to arrest the Mountain, and he continued this original mission to protect and defend the realm, but he couldn't remember details of his life that were meaningful like his mother or that he had been promised in marriage. Catelyn basically had gone mad right before she was murdered, and when she was resurrected, all she's focused on now is vengeance. Wights have no humanity in them at all, but while they do retain some small memories of who they were, they cannot stay animated without the cold wind resuscitating them.
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Post by min on May 15, 2016 18:16:58 GMT
Drinking from the fountain of the drunken god? A cup of life and a cup of death? Drink from a cup of fire, drink from a cup of ice? What did Arya choose when she drank the poisoned cup. Same with Meilsandre when she drank Cressen's poison cup? Didn't they both choose the death of their identity?
ETA: Is this why Melisandre says that dreams are the little death because she remembers who she was as a girl? Melony, lot 9.
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Post by Ser Duncan on May 15, 2016 18:28:35 GMT
Wights have no humanity in them at all, but while they do retain some small memories of who they were, they cannot stay animated without the cold wind resuscitating them. I think the cold and the reanimation are two different things. There is something about Westeros that allows for the reanimation of bodies and the Cold is taking advantage of that. I think your work on the Drowned Man chapter goes a long way in explaining why bodies can be brought back from the dead. The Cold then takes over the wights and uses them for the Others' own end. The fact the hand Thorne takes to King's Landing and the arm that Summer eats are still animated shows it's not the Blue in their eyes that's causing the bodies to come back. They are coming back due to something else that the Others are using. Possibly it's a spell that is cast and carried in the wind, or there is something in the very earth of Westeros that causes nature to reject the spirits of the dead into the rocks, rivers etc. and they return to their bodies. Coldhands could be a product of this, but was outside the reach of the Cold, since he's not controlled like the other wights.
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