Post by min on May 17, 2016 21:51:25 GMT
I wanted to make a separate thread for dialogue from the book that is given to another character in the Mummer's Show. Weasel Pie has really got me thinking about this now since the lying game with Arya. I've started going through the Arya chapters and I can't find the Waif beating her up the way she does. This is something that Syrio does in Arya's training. Tell me about your family is dialogue from a different character in the book.
So I wonder why D&D made that choice and if we are being given tidbits of information. Nothing so obvious as to give away anything except to the most discerning observer (Weasel). A kind of hindsight vision for the show only after the reveal in the books. More about Arya later.
Another Weasel Pie brainstorm, I'll lift out of the MMD/Inversion thread:
May 17, 2016 11:18:46 GMT -4 Weasel Pie said:
A sort of inversion occurred to me.
What if "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" means "when time runs backwards"?
This makes sense if Dany has a timelord experience at Vaes Dothrak and a vision of Drogo or distant ancestor from the past. I wonder if the whole prophecy is a vision from the past.
Mirri Maaz Duur:
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
Quaithe:
Remember who you are, Daenerys, ... The dragons know. Do you?
Undying:
Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.
. . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . .
. . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .
. . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .
Dany:
"I will stay," Dany said. "This man took me under the stars and gave life to the child inside me. I will not leave him."
"You must. Once I begin to sing, no one must enter this tent. My song will wake powers old and dark. The dead will dance here this night. No living man must look on them."
Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf and another like a man wreathed in flames.
She was being carried. Her eyes opened to gaze up at a flat dead sky, black and bleak and starless. The sound of Mirri Maaz Duur's voice grew louder, until if filled the world. The shapes! She screamed. The dancers!
At this point, I'm inclined make this inversion:
- the shadow of the great wolf and another like a man wreathed in flames
- the great other and the dragon
I think Dany is the mother of dragons from a long line of dragons and conversely the original mother of dragons. She must remember who she is.
So I wonder if this is what is being alluded to in the Mummer's show when Dany walks out of the temple 'wreathed' in flames.
The flat dead sky is alluded to by Beric Dondarrion when Mel shows up to collect Gendry and rattle Thoros' bones:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
But he doesn't say anything about the dead, starless sky in the books, so this seems to be something lifted from Dany.
Storm of Swords Arya
Lord Beric himself did not eat. Arya have never seen him eat, though from time to time he took a cup of wine. He did not seem to sleep either.
The dull black steel hid the terrible wound the Hound had given him, the same way his thick woolen scarf concealed the dark ring around his throat. But nothing hid his broken head, all caved in at the temple, or the raw red pit that was his missing eye, or the shape of the skull beneath his face.
"Thoros, how many times have you brought me back now?"
The red priest bowed his head. "It is R'hllor who brings you back, my lord. The Lord of light. I am only his instrument.
"How many times?" Lord Beric insisted.
"Six." Thoros said reluctantly. "And each time is harder. You have grown reckless, my lord. Is death so very sweet?"
"Sweet? No, my friend. Not sweet."
"Then do not court it so. Lord Tywin leads from the rear. Lord Stannis as well. You would be wise to do the same. A seventh death might mean the end of both of us."
Which begs the question: why would it be the end of Thoros? Mirri Maaz Duur says something about this:
Which also begs the question: did MMD lose an unborn child in the process? Hence the warning not to enter the tent. Beric loses more of himself every time; what price does Thoros pay. Does he also lose some of himself as well. Thoros says he wakes to the taste of ashes in his mouth but nothing about the dark sky.
I'll jump out on a limb and say the starless sky is a vision of the Long Night, where the sky cannot be seen and the stars are blacked out. When mountains blow and the seas dry up.
Thoros says this about resurrection:
I gave him the good god's own kiss to send him on his way. I filled my mouth with fire and breathed the flames inside him, down his throat, to lungs and heart and soul.
Life is warmth, and warmth is fire, and fire is God's and God's alone.
So expressly, not what happens to Jon in the show. She doesn't give him the last kiss. It would be one hell of a yuck moment after Melisandre's big reveal so probably opted out of that one. But we did get a reveal about her.
Like Melisandre, both Thoros and Beric can consume food and drink and so it is with Jon. Since he feels the cold, he must be warm.
Going back to what Dany sees in the tent; Melisandre takes Davos to Rahloo shadow baby re-education camp:
"Feel how cold the wind is? The guards will huddle close to those torches. A little warmth, a little light, they're a comfort on a night like this. Yet that will blind them, so they will not see us pass." I hope. "The god of darkness protects us now, my lady. Even you."
The flames of her eyes seemed to burn a little brighter at that. "Speak not that name, Ser. Lest you draw his black eye upon us. He protects no man. I promise you. He is the enemy of all that lives."
His black eye? Is that the third eye filled with terrible knowledge? The three eyed crow? And again another reference to no man. It's amusing to think that the god of darkness will hear you speak his name; except that Jaqen H'Gar basically tells Arya the same thing about the gods hearing you.
That's a start and I could keep going except that I need a nap now.
So I wonder why D&D made that choice and if we are being given tidbits of information. Nothing so obvious as to give away anything except to the most discerning observer (Weasel). A kind of hindsight vision for the show only after the reveal in the books. More about Arya later.
Another Weasel Pie brainstorm, I'll lift out of the MMD/Inversion thread:
May 17, 2016 11:18:46 GMT -4 Weasel Pie said:
A sort of inversion occurred to me.
What if "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east" means "when time runs backwards"?
This makes sense if Dany has a timelord experience at Vaes Dothrak and a vision of Drogo or distant ancestor from the past. I wonder if the whole prophecy is a vision from the past.
Mirri Maaz Duur:
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
Quaithe:
Remember who you are, Daenerys, ... The dragons know. Do you?
Undying:
Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.
. . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . .
. . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .
. . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .
Dany:
"I will stay," Dany said. "This man took me under the stars and gave life to the child inside me. I will not leave him."
"You must. Once I begin to sing, no one must enter this tent. My song will wake powers old and dark. The dead will dance here this night. No living man must look on them."
Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf and another like a man wreathed in flames.
She was being carried. Her eyes opened to gaze up at a flat dead sky, black and bleak and starless. The sound of Mirri Maaz Duur's voice grew louder, until if filled the world. The shapes! She screamed. The dancers!
At this point, I'm inclined make this inversion:
- the shadow of the great wolf and another like a man wreathed in flames
- the great other and the dragon
I think Dany is the mother of dragons from a long line of dragons and conversely the original mother of dragons. She must remember who she is.
So I wonder if this is what is being alluded to in the Mummer's show when Dany walks out of the temple 'wreathed' in flames.
The flat dead sky is alluded to by Beric Dondarrion when Mel shows up to collect Gendry and rattle Thoros' bones:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEj1aN_Rmj0
But he doesn't say anything about the dead, starless sky in the books, so this seems to be something lifted from Dany.
Storm of Swords Arya
Lord Beric himself did not eat. Arya have never seen him eat, though from time to time he took a cup of wine. He did not seem to sleep either.
The dull black steel hid the terrible wound the Hound had given him, the same way his thick woolen scarf concealed the dark ring around his throat. But nothing hid his broken head, all caved in at the temple, or the raw red pit that was his missing eye, or the shape of the skull beneath his face.
"Thoros, how many times have you brought me back now?"
The red priest bowed his head. "It is R'hllor who brings you back, my lord. The Lord of light. I am only his instrument.
"How many times?" Lord Beric insisted.
"Six." Thoros said reluctantly. "And each time is harder. You have grown reckless, my lord. Is death so very sweet?"
"Sweet? No, my friend. Not sweet."
"Then do not court it so. Lord Tywin leads from the rear. Lord Stannis as well. You would be wise to do the same. A seventh death might mean the end of both of us."
Which begs the question: why would it be the end of Thoros? Mirri Maaz Duur says something about this:
Which also begs the question: did MMD lose an unborn child in the process? Hence the warning not to enter the tent. Beric loses more of himself every time; what price does Thoros pay. Does he also lose some of himself as well. Thoros says he wakes to the taste of ashes in his mouth but nothing about the dark sky.
I'll jump out on a limb and say the starless sky is a vision of the Long Night, where the sky cannot be seen and the stars are blacked out. When mountains blow and the seas dry up.
Thoros says this about resurrection:
I gave him the good god's own kiss to send him on his way. I filled my mouth with fire and breathed the flames inside him, down his throat, to lungs and heart and soul.
Life is warmth, and warmth is fire, and fire is God's and God's alone.
So expressly, not what happens to Jon in the show. She doesn't give him the last kiss. It would be one hell of a yuck moment after Melisandre's big reveal so probably opted out of that one. But we did get a reveal about her.
Like Melisandre, both Thoros and Beric can consume food and drink and so it is with Jon. Since he feels the cold, he must be warm.
Going back to what Dany sees in the tent; Melisandre takes Davos to Rahloo shadow baby re-education camp:
"Feel how cold the wind is? The guards will huddle close to those torches. A little warmth, a little light, they're a comfort on a night like this. Yet that will blind them, so they will not see us pass." I hope. "The god of darkness protects us now, my lady. Even you."
The flames of her eyes seemed to burn a little brighter at that. "Speak not that name, Ser. Lest you draw his black eye upon us. He protects no man. I promise you. He is the enemy of all that lives."
His black eye? Is that the third eye filled with terrible knowledge? The three eyed crow? And again another reference to no man. It's amusing to think that the god of darkness will hear you speak his name; except that Jaqen H'Gar basically tells Arya the same thing about the gods hearing you.
That's a start and I could keep going except that I need a nap now.