|
Post by Melifeather on Aug 2, 2016 1:33:24 GMT
lso on a completely different note, Jon does this when he turns away from Yrigitte. He pretty much freezes his desire for her. Even when in battle against her, he no longer desires her physically, he worries he might have killed her himself. Meanwhile all this is happening Dany is also fighting her desire for Dhaario. We know how that turns out. She never stops desiring him. This is another little yin yang moment. Kind of funny that we've got a woman that wants it, and a man that is willing to go without. Velly interesting....and after I read through the Bran Unbound thread, about Bran calling to Jon through the tree and telling him to open his third eye, now I'm wondering if JON is going to serve as the Shiva figure - the guy who removed himself from the world, who chose to hole away in a remote and frosty place, the guy who will have to open his third eye to cast light into the darkness. A darkness, if you subscribe to the Hindu lore, that he brought himself, that he bears partial responsibility for....partial only because someone else closed his two normal eyes. DEATH. So many people have pegged Jon as Azor Ahai...could this really be the case, just not in the way people think? If Jon has more of the north in him than his brothers, then perhaps the long-delayed opening of his third eye will be very, very important. I like where you're going with this, but I also have some thoughts of my own that have nothing to do with Shiva...at least none that I know. Jon is the Lord Commander that is also the Night's King, but the inversion is he wins out over the Lord of Winterfell...but, he also may not be able to ensorcel the Night's Watch. They throw him out and he leaves, and maybe the wildlings do join him like they do on the mummer's version. I still think there's a connection between the wildlings and the Others...and when I say Others, this time I mean white walkers.
|
|
|
Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 2, 2016 2:09:16 GMT
So many people have pegged Jon as Azor Ahai...could this really be the case, just not in the way people think? If Jon has more of the north in him than his brothers, then perhaps the long-delayed opening of his third eye will be very, very important. I don't really subscribe to Jon being AA, but there is that interesting paradox here. Varamyr says Jon is a powerful warg, maybe more powerful than him if he was ever trained the way Varamyr was. And we know Varamyr is strong enough to actually enter a weirwood, for however briefly Mel, he does inhabit the tree. No one else has done that. Take that into account along with the fact that it was not Jon's head that got poked, but Ghost's and we have the set up of Jon being pivotal, if not central, to what happens. Jon's eyes are closed at the end of Dance, now he'll be forced to open that third eye. What will happen when he's got the ability to reach out not only to animals but to people, like Bran can? Will he use that power or reject it as dishonourable. Towards the end of Dance, Jon was getting quite comfortable in his LC position. Thinking ahead, making choices and acting a bit of a git.
|
|
|
Post by queenofwinter on Aug 2, 2016 2:47:27 GMT
Some Pig, Your post about Shiva brought something to mind---have you looked into the God, Agni? Might be worth a look if you haven't.....
|
|
|
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 2, 2016 2:51:09 GMT
whoosh moment here, how is "more of the North" translating into a long-delayed third eye opening for Jon? Sorry, my brain was moving faster than my fingers on that one. Let me back up. Bran's abilities, the gift of his third eye, come to him via his Stark blood - and of course his connection to Summer that results from that. Although per GRRM all the Stark kids are wargs, Bran is the only one who has opened his eye. The tree communion has him prodding Jon to do the same, but Jon is doing his sulky Night's Watch duty thing, which is basically the tale of Shiva retreating to the mountain to shun everything and everyone and brood, amirite? So although Jon has his episodes with Ghost here and there, he's for the most part refusing to acknowledge that this is a pretty cool life skill that might be, you know, useful, and his third eye remains tightly shut. Backing up again, if we agree that there's a 99.999% chance that Jon indeed has a Stark for a parent, then all of his extra Starkiness - "the more of the north" in him - leaves us 3 decent options: 1) Jon is an incest baby, with a double dose of Stark; 2) There is something extra soopar special about the Stark parent that provided his single dose (insert theory of Stark maternal line here - "the woman is important too!"); 3) Otherbaby. I know I don't have to convince you of #3 so I will focus on ramifications of 1 & 2. If Jon is a supercharged Stark via either route, his dormant third eye could be very powerful indeed. Even MOAR powerful than what we see with Bran. (Also, if events from the show play out in the book, he also may be the only Stark left in town that has a wolf close by at his disposal.) If this is the case, when he finally gets around to fully opening that sucker and letting his little light shine - becoming Lightbringer, if you will - his eye may be powerful enough with *whatever* it can do to either bring salvation upon the world (Shiva switching on his ocular MagLite after his two normal ones were closed) or destruction (Shiva firing a frikkin' laser beam at fiery Lust and reducing him to cinders). Whatever disaster is brewing in the North/under Winterfell, JON'S third eye may be the thing to stop it, or the thing to release it. Point here being is that although Jon may be Azor Ahai reborn - to the delight of RLJ fans everywhere - and may don the mantle of The Prince That Was Promised, I propose that it matters not one single iota that he is part Targaryen or Dayne or Reed or whatever. What matters, what allows him to fulfill this role in the prophecy, IS THAT HE HAS MORE OF THE NORTH IN HIM THAN HIS BROTHERS. This applies to both his blood brothers and his brothers in black - no matter which scenario you choose, he out-norths them all. Think about that great observation by whatever random crack Reddit intellect about the Prologue, in which the Others check out poor unfortunate Waymar Royce before dispatching him: a young lord from a noble family, one who resembles Jon Snow, who is wearing a black cloak and carrying a fancy sword. They toy with him first, then kill him - the theory being that they realized this is not the droid they're looking for. Sounds like the Others are familiar with the prophecy too - and the prophecy is that The Prince That Was Promised who will do battle against Winter will be a member of the Night's Watch and a STARK.
|
|
|
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 2, 2016 2:52:07 GMT
I don't really subscribe to Jon being AA, but there is that interesting paradox here. Varamyr says Jon is a powerful warg, maybe more powerful than him if he was ever trained the way Varamyr was. And we know Varamyr is strong enough to actually enter a weirwood, for however briefly Mel, he does inhabit the tree. No one else has done that. Take that into account along with the fact that it was not Jon's head that got poked, but Ghost's and we have the set up of Jon being pivotal, if not central, to what happens. Jon's eyes are closed at the end of Dance, now he'll be forced to open that third eye. What will happen when he's got the ability to reach out not only to animals but to people, like Bran can? Will he use that power or reject it as dishonourable. Towards the end of Dance, Jon was getting quite comfortable in his LC position. Thinking ahead, making choices and acting a bit of a git. I should have just let you reply for me! Spot on!
|
|
|
Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 2, 2016 2:59:01 GMT
Some Pig, Your post about Shiva brought something to mind---have you looked into the God, Agni? Might be worth a look if you haven't..... I have not, but I certainly will now! Thanks for the tip!
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Aug 2, 2016 3:13:18 GMT
Varamyr is strong enough to actually enter a weirwood, for however briefly Mel, he does inhabit the tree OK, you asked for it. Here's the passage: Varamyr's spirit was floating freely. He passed through a weirwood but for a moment. It wasn't a conscious choice nor was he expelled. He was just born on the wind. but Jon is doing his sulky Night's Watch duty thing, which is basically the tale of Shiva retreating to the mountain to shun everything and everyone and brood, amirite? - heh Backing up again, if we agree that there's a 99.999% chance that Jon indeed has a Stark for a parent, then all of his extra Starkiness - "the more of the north" in him - leaves us 3 decent options: 1) Jon is an incest baby, with a double dose of Stark; 2) There is something extra soopar special about the Stark parent that provided his single dose (insert theory of Stark maternal line here - "the woman is important too!"); 3) Otherbaby. - heh, heh If this is the case, when he finally gets around to fully opening that sucker and letting his little light shine - becoming Lightbringer, if you will - his eye may be powerful enough with *whatever* it can do to either bring salvation upon the world (Shiva switching on his ocular MagLite - heh heh heh IS THAT HE HAS MORE OF THE NORTH IN HIM THAN HIS BROTHERS. This applies to both his blood brothers and his brothers in black - no matter which scenario you choose, he out-norths them all. Yeaaasss Think about that great observation by whatever random crack Reddit intellect about the Prologue, in which the Others check out poor unfortunate Waymar Royce before dispatching him: a young lord from a noble family, one who resembles Jon Snow, who is wearing a black cloak and carrying a fancy sword. They toy with him first, then kill him - the theory being that they realized this is not the droid they're looking for. Sounds like the Others are familiar with the prophecy too - and the prophecy is that The Prince That Was Promised who will do battle against Winter will be a member of the Night's Watch and a STARK. Agreed with all of the above and laughed at the humor as well!
|
|
|
Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 2, 2016 4:36:11 GMT
OK, you asked for it. Here's the passage: Still counts. V6 went from leaving his body straight to the weirwood and looked through it's carved face. Who else in this story does the same exact thing? Only Bran, the most powerful warg/skinchanger we've got in this series. Well maybe BR was just as powerful or more, but we don't see enough of BR to know what level of achievement he had at the age of 12.
|
|
|
Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 2, 2016 4:48:35 GMT
Although per GRRM all the Stark kids are wargs, Bran is the only one who has opened his eye. Let's not forget Arya. By the end of Dance her 3rd eye is opened too. She can wilfully enter the cats that she meets while being awake. The only other Stark to do that is Bran. And from the look of that scene with the Kindly Man, she can hold a conversation while skinchanging because she accurately hits the KM's hand with her stick. She would have to know where his hand is in order to hit it. Don't think she would've heard him place his hand where it was, she'd have to've been looking through the cat in the rafters eyes in order to see where it was placed. I'm not sure if even Bran can do that. Can't remember if he's able to be in Summer and hold a conversation without flitting back and forth.
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Aug 2, 2016 10:16:55 GMT
OK, you asked for it. Here's the passage: Still counts. V6 went from leaving his body straight to the weirwood and looked through it's carved face. Who else in this story does the same exact thing? Only Bran, the most powerful warg/skinchanger we've got in this series. Well maybe BR was just as powerful or more, but we don't see enough of BR to know what level of achievement he had at the age of 12. I don't see this as a Varamyr thing, but any skinchanger kind of thing.
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 2, 2016 12:10:11 GMT
Point here being is that although Jon may be Azor Ahai reborn - to the delight of RLJ fans everywhere - and may don the mantle of The Prince That Was Promised, I propose that it matters not one single iota that he is part Targaryen or Dayne or Reed or whatever. What matters, what allows him to fulfill this role in the prophecy, IS THAT HE HAS MORE OF THE NORTH IN HIM THAN HIS BROTHERS. This applies to both his blood brothers and his brothers in black - no matter which scenario you choose, he out-norths them all. Think about that great observation by whatever random crack Reddit intellect about the Prologue, in which the Others check out poor unfortunate Waymar Royce before dispatching him: a young lord from a noble family, one who resembles Jon Snow, who is wearing a black cloak and carrying a fancy sword. They toy with him first, then kill him - the theory being that they realized this is not the droid they're looking for. Sounds like the Others are familiar with the prophecy too - and the prophecy is that The Prince That Was Promised who will do battle against Winter will be a member of the Night's Watch and a STARK. This is awesome! About the bolded... remember in the show when the WW toyed around with Jon instead of getting the job done? Could have just been a fluke on the part of D&D but what if that was supposed to serve the same purpose as the Waymar scenario? You don't toy with an enemy. But you do toy with a potential ally or leader. What if they were testing his abilities? Think of the WW's saying "Do it Joey! If it's really him that sword will kill you instantly, which would suck for you but we'd find the One we're looking for... whoa damn, it's not him after all. Better end it." Yes I named the WW Joey.
|
|
|
Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 2, 2016 12:12:29 GMT
Jon's eyes are closed at the end of Dance, now he'll be forced to open that third eye. What will happen when he's got the ability to reach out not only to animals but to people, like Bran can? Oh my god. Jon the Timelord.
|
|
|
Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 2, 2016 15:52:17 GMT
Oh my god. Jon the Timelord. More like Jon the Destroyer. That 3rd eye doesn't do nice things necessarily. Wasn't the crow's 3rd eye filled with terrible knowledge?
|
|
|
Post by Melifeather on Aug 2, 2016 16:20:51 GMT
The third eye is a conduit between skinchanger and host. I don't think in GRRM's story you can do much more with it unless you're a greenseer also.
|
|
|
Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 2, 2016 16:27:06 GMT
Because Varamyr was such a great guy, right? He did no harm at all with beasts. Or to his beasts.
|
|