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Post by min on Aug 6, 2016 21:36:56 GMT
Archmaester Marwyn is quite a compelling character mentioned both by Mirri Maz Duur and Qyburn. He sends copies of reading material to the Reader. His appearance is striking:
A Feast for Crows Sam V:
"Sam," said Alleras, "this is Archmaester Marwyn."
Marwyn wore a chain of many metals around his bull's neck. Save for that, he looked more like a dockside thug than a maester. His head was too big for his body, and the way it thrust forward from his shoulders; together with that slab of a jaw, made him look as if he was about to tear someone's head off. Though short and squat, he was heavy in the chest and shoulders, with a round rock-hard ale belly straining at the laces of the leather jerkin he wore in place of robes. Bristly white hair sprouted from his ears and nostrils. His brow beetled, his nose has been broken more than once, and sourleaf had stained his teeth a mottled red. He had the biggest hands that Sam had ever seen. ..... Marwyn smiled a ghastly smile the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth.
When Sam arrives at the Citadel he is eventually met by the Sphynx. Sam spills his guts and tells him everything including the bits about Coldhands and the wights; but leaves out Bran and Mance's baby swap. When he meets Marywn; there is a glass candle burning in the room. Marwyn grabs Sam by the arm and yanks him into the room. Then he tells Sam that he already knows what Sam told Alleras by way of the glass candle. It's curious that Marwyn was able to know what Sam said before having established the physical link that Quaithe uses with Dany. So it must be a link with Alleras that allows Marywn to see and hear them in conversation. Not from above as in the crow's eye view but from within Alleras looking out? Marwyn tells Sam that he can see across the world and given that he has sailed the world and spends a lot of time in sailor's pubs; is it possible that he has established a spider's web of contacts? Does he have this connection with Qyburn and previously with Mirri Maz Duur? He can enter people's dreams?
"What feeds a dragon's fire?" Marwyn seated himself upon a stool. "All Valyrian sorcery was rooted in blood or fire. The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man's dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles. Do you think that might be useful, Slayer?"
A Dance with Dragons Tyrion VIII
Tyrion Lanniser had scant experience with other dwarfs. His lord father had not welcomed any reminders of his son's deformities, and such mummers as featured little folk in their troupes soon learned to stay away from Lannisport and Casterly Rock, at the risk of his displeasure. Growing up,Tyrion heard reports of a dwarf jester at the seat of the Dornish Lord Fowler, a dwarf maester in the service on the Fingers, and *a female dwarf amongst the silent sisters, but never felt the least need to seek them out. Less reliable tales also reached his ears, of a dwarf with who haunted a hill in the Riverlands, .....
Is is possible that Marwyn was the maester who served at the Fingers? From Sam's description he seems to have characteristics of dwarfism. That has some implications regardinig Petyr Baelish. I think this is overlooked because we're being introduced to glass candles for the first time and Sam doesn't come right out and say he is a dwarf. Perhaps he has never seen a dwarf before then.
* Leaf perhaps? Learning to speak the common tongue but not required to speak.
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Post by min on Aug 7, 2016 13:48:55 GMT
There are threads between Marwyn and other characters that place a certain amount of suspicion on Marwyn's role:
1) Mirri Maz Duur - meets Marwyn in Asshai where they "open bodies" together; MMD learned the ritual for bringing back the dead and paid a price for the knowledge
2) Qyburn - admires Marwyn who is not afraid of the grey sheep, who also opens bodies of the living to learn he secrets of death: ultimately raising UnGregor after his head is removed. Another version of MMD's ritual.
3) The Valonqar - high Valyrian for little brother - a language that Marwyn is likely to speak given that he holds the Valyrian steel ring in his chain- Maesters qualify as a brotherhood
4) Large Hands - This stands out in Sam's description of Marwyn and it shows up in one of Cersei's recurring dreams about the valonqar
5) Cersei's dream FfC Cersei VIII:
Cersei dreams and old dream of Maggie (maegi) the Frog:
The valonqar shall warp his hands around your throat, the queen heard, but the voice did not belong to the old woman. The hands emerged from the mists of her dream and coiled around her neck; thick hands and strong. Above them floating a face; leering down at her with his mismatched eyes.
- a different voice from the old woman - emphasis on the hands, thick and strong, something that Sam notices about Marwyn, his hands and his strength - mismatched eyes, a characteristic of dwarfism - Sam doesn't mention it but in a darkened room; the pupils are dilated.
And this interesting quote from another passage in a discussion between Cersei and the hunt for Tyrion:
"The dwarf is cunning. Perhaps he still lurks near, planning more murders. Perhaps some friend is hiding him."
Does this sound like Tyrion. Could the friend be Qyburn. Could Marwyn be watching Cersei as he watched Sam using another through a glass darkly? Can he communicate with Qyburn and enter Cersei's dreams? So he says about glass candles. In FfC after Qyburn appears; Cersei is obsessed with the prophecy and descends further into madness. After Joffrey's death, she is determined not to lose anymore children.
A reminder that Marwyn tells Sam that prophecy is like a treacherous woman. The description fits Cersei who despises dwarfs and anyone beneath her, which is just about everyone. Prophecy is never what you think it is. While Cersei is consumed with the prophecy that her children will all wear golden crowns and shrouds; Jamie's wierwood stump dream (after leaving Brienne behind at Harenhall) tells a different foreshadowing of death. In it Cersei, Joffrey and Tywin appear in the Cavern with him. Brienne is there as well and they both have flaming swords. * Cersei tells Jamie that when the light goes out, he will too. Cersei, Tywin and Joffrey are not yet dead but soon will be. Missing are Tommen and Myrcella.
* This is a curious statement. The light going out would seem to refer to Brienne's sword since the light in Jamie's sword extinguishes. When he wakes, he rushes back to Harrenhal to save her from the bear pit. I think there is a deeper meaning here in that Brienne herself is the light.
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Post by min on Aug 8, 2016 12:13:39 GMT
I just want to put this here so I don't forget to come back to it. Ultimately, I think we are talking about opposing agencies that can enter minds and influence dreams: Has anyone had a close look at the final image of the astrolabe in the opening sequence. Here's what I see: - an eclipse - the moon blocking the sun - the blood eye - black pupil surrounded by red - two pyramids or mountains inverted; the mother of mountains and Braavos; a volcano and an underwater volcano - Euron's sigil - two crows and the red eye - also inverted - the three eyed crow - one above and one below i.ytimg.com/vi/XAgZOyklEZI/maxresdefault.jpg I think there may be two 3E Crows or agencies that appear as a crow; the one that Jojen speaks of trying to break Bran's chains; and the one to which Moqorro speaks; the drowned god who is in thrall to the Other. I'm reminded of Tyrion seeing the moon in the sky and reflected in the sea and his dream of having two heads; one slaughtering with glee and the other weeping. The moon being an aspect of the 3EC. Patchface reflects the 'underwater' version of the 3EC with his strange under the sea references. The god Trios might also parallel or represent a mirror of the three heads of the dragon as well. Patchface and Hodor might have something in common in the way their minds were damaged. Euron may not be so much a failed greenseer than a vessel for the Other. This also brings to mind the old man and the old woman seated at the table in the House of the Undying. Once there were two moons in the sky until one was smashed by a comet or stabbed in the heart with a fiery sword falling into the sea.
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Post by min on Aug 8, 2016 15:43:04 GMT
More stuff that repeats in different places. CoK Dany IV - The House of Undying
"Warlocks are bitter creatures who eat dust and *drink shadows. They will give you naught. They have naught to give." - Xaro Xhoan Daxos
"The door to my right," Dany repeated. "I understand. And when I leave, the opposite!" "By no means," Pyat Pree said. "Leaving and coming, it is the same. Always up."
"When you come to the chamber of the Undying, be patient. Our little lives are no more than a flicker of a moth's wing to them. Listen well and write each word upon your heart."******* In one room, a beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor while four little men crawled over her. They had rattish pointed faces and tiny pink hands, like the servitor who had brought her *the glass of shade. One was pumping between her thighs. Another savaged her breasts, worrying at the nipples with his wet red mouth, tearing and chewing.
* Dany refers to shade of the evening as her glass of shade; while Warlocks drink shadows. Does this sound like Euron? Could the beautiful woman lying naked and prone on the floor surrounded by rats be Cersei? She is consumed with the idea that there are rats in the walls. Then she watches Qyburn torture the Blue Bard. FfC Cersei IX:
Lord Qyburn ran a hand up the Blue Bard's chest. "Does she take your nipples in her mouth during your love play?" He took one between his thumb and forefinger, and twisted. "Some men enjoy that. Their nipples are as sensitive as a woman's". The razor flashed, the singer shrieked. On his chest a wet red eye wept blood. Cersei felt ill. Part of her wanted to close her eyes, to turn away, to make it stop. But she was queen and this was treason. Lord Tywin would not have turned away.
CoK Dany IV
Through the indigo murk, she could make out the wizened features of the Undying One to her right, an old old man, wrinkled and hairless. His flesh was a ripe violet-blue, his lips and nails bluer still, so dark they were almost black. Even the whites of his eyes were blue. WoW - The Forsaken - The night they moved him, he had seen the moon floating on a black wine sea with a leering face that reminded him of Euron.- He knew that he was in some dungeon, but not where, or for how long. - The shackles that bound him to the wall were old and rusted, and his fetters had cut into his wrists. - Rats moved in the darkness, swimming through the water. - When he laughed his face sloughed off and the priest saw that it was not Urri but Euron, the smiling eye hidden. - He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible. - When Euron came again, his hair was swept straight back from his brow, and his lips were so blue that they were almost black.angrygotfan.com/2016/05/29/the-winds-of-winter-the-forsaken/After Cersei watches the Blue Bard tortured by Qyburn; she has the worst valonqar dream yet. She herself is in the dungeon being tortured: Cersei dreamt that she was down in the black cells once again, only this time it was her chained to the wall in place of the singer. She was naked, and blood dripped from the tips of her breasts where the Imp had torn off her nipples with his teeth. "Please," she begged, "Please, not my children, do not harm my children." Tyrion only leered at her. He was naked too, covered with coarse hair that made him look more like a monkey than a man. "You shall see them crowned," he said, "and you shall see them die." Then he took her bleeding breast into his mouth and began to suck, and *pain sawed through her like a hot knife. * For some reason this reminds me of Moqorro and Victarion; his knife and blazier and the pain Victarion would undergo. All of this imagery seems to point to Euron, Qyburn and Marywin.
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Post by min on Aug 8, 2016 21:48:49 GMT
These quotes from aCoK and WoW are almost identical Through the indigo murk, she could make out the wizened features of the Undying One to her right, an old old man, wrinkled and hairless. His flesh was a ripe violet-blue, his lips and nails bluer still, so dark they were almost black. Even the whites of his eyes were blue.
When Euron came again, his hair was swept straight back from his brow, and his lips were so blue that they were almost black.And this view of the moon on the water; a moon with Euron's face is compelling: The night they moved him, he had seen the moon floating on a black wine sea with a leering face that reminded him of Euron.And this the smiling eye hidden overtaken by the blood-eye; appearing as the beloved Urri and then turning into Euron. When he laughed his face sloughed off and the priest saw that it was not Urri but Euron, the smiling eye hidden. He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible..... I'm coming to the conclusion that Euron is an abomination; that harboring within him is the old, old man from the House of Undying. The Other 3EC. Something that was released when Drogon burned down the HoU and the blue heart. Here's Dany again when she makes her escape and Xaro's words about the tales being told afterwards: Through the indigo murk, she could make out the wizened features of the Undying One to her right, an old old man, wrinkled and hairless. His flesh was a ripe violet-blue, his lips and nails bluer still , so dark they were almost black. Even the whites of his eyes were blue. They stared unseeing at the ancient woman on the opposite side of the table, whose gown of pale silk had rotted on her body. One withered breast was left bare in the Qartheen manner, to show a pointed blue nipple hard as leather. .... But then black wings buffeted her round the head, and a scream of fury cut the indigo air, and suddenly the visions were gone, ripped away, and Dany's gasp turn to horror. The Undying were all around her, blue and cold, whispering as they reached for her, pulling, stroking, tugging at her clothes, touching here with their dry cold hands, twining their fingers through her hair. All the strength had left her limbs. She could not move. Even her heart has ceased to beat. She felt hands on her bare breast, twisting her nipple. Teeth found the soft skin of her throat. A mouth descended on one eye, licking, sucking, biting....
Perched above her, the dragon spread his wings and tore at **the terrible dark heart, ripping the rotten flesh to ribbons...
She could hear the shrieks of the Undying as they burned, their high thin papery voices crying out in tongues long dead. Their flesh crumbling parchment, their bones dry wood soaked in tallow. *They danced as the flames consumed them, they staggered and writhed and spun and raised blazing hands on high, their fingers bright as torches. * calls to mind the dancing shadows in MMD's tent **another reference to the heart of darkness that Bran sees in his coma dream Before Dany enters the room of the Undying, she is met with a splendor of wizards; bitter creatures according to Xaro and all showing the smiling eye: A kingly man in rich robes rose when he saw her, and smiled. "Danaerys of House Targaryen, be welcome. Come and share the food of forever. We are the Undying of Qarth."
"Long have we awaited you," said a woman beside him, clad in rose and silver. The breast she had left bare i the Qartheen fashion was as perfect as a breast could be.
"We knew you were to come to us," the wizard king said. "A thousand years ago we knew, and have been waiting all this time. We sent the comet to show you the way." There are wizards in tall hats with stars; men and women dressed in finery and cloth of gold, a warrior in emerald armor offering magic weapons. All a seduction meant to trap her. Remove the smiling eye and you get the dark heart she encounters in the next room. The old old man, the wizard king and the lady of Qarth who sits beside him. Dany herself is the feast they mean to dine on. Like Bran, they have been waiting for Dany for a 1000 years. In CoK Dany V, Xaro tells her the strange stories that are being told in the aftermath: ..."I have won no victories," she tried telling her handmaid when he bell tinkled softly. "Jiqhui disagreed. "You have burned the magi in their house of dust and sent their souls to hell."Or were their shadow souls released when the HoU burned down? Xaro had learned that Pyat Pree was gathering the surviving warlocks together to work ill on her. Dany had laughed when he told her. "Was it not you who told me warlocks were no more than old soldiers, vainly boasting of forgotten deeds and lost prowess?"
Xaro looked troubled. "And so it was, then. but now? I am less certain. It is said that the glass candles are burning in the house of *Urrathon Night-Walker, that have not burned in a hundred years. Ghost grass grows in the Garden of Gehane, phantom tortoises have been seen carrying messages between the windowless houses on Warlock's Way and all the rats in the city are chewing off their tails. The wife of Mathose Malarawn,who once mocked a warlock's drab moth-eaten robe, had gone mad and will wear no clothes at all. Even fresh-washed silks make her feel as though a thousand insects were crawling on her skin. And blind Sybassion the Eater of Eyes can see again, or so his slaves do swear. A man must wonder." Blind Sybassion Eater of Eyes seems to have his counterpart in the HoU. And another who feels the sting of being mocked for his drab clothing is Qyburn, someone with smiling eyes concealing at dark heart. * awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Urrathon_IV_Goodbrother
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 9, 2016 1:30:07 GMT
Just popping in to let you know I love the subject! But I need more time to gather my thoughts.
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Post by min on Aug 9, 2016 1:31:22 GMT
Slight diversion...
I'm starting to wonder why the God's Eye is separated from the north by the wall. I wonder if it's an added wall of protection from the heart of darkness in the north. Especially since Euron's express intention is to kill all the gods including whatever lies on the God's Eye itself. That there are heart trees north of the wall seems a bit like an advance guard with their soldier pines in attendance. I'm starting to think that there is an equivalent god's grove in the heart of winter since we seem to have mega fauna like mammoths and cave lions. It's possible that at one time the north was free of ice as well for part of it's geological history.
I think the heart of darkness is mobile and located on Euron's little shop ship of horrors.
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Post by min on Aug 9, 2016 1:34:17 GMT
Just popping in to let you know I love the subject! But I need more time to gather my thoughts. I came across some icky bits that suggest a connection between Qyburn and Littlefinger. I'll post tomorrow.
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Post by min on Aug 19, 2016 13:58:21 GMT
Just want to add this bit as it's germane to the subject.
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Post by min on Aug 20, 2016 14:11:58 GMT
Genna Lannister:
Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year.
"All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes." - Tyrion to Jon Snow.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Aug 20, 2016 18:15:02 GMT
I once made a thread (Six Degrees of Burnt Bacon) concerning the background players like Marwyn, MMD, Quaithe and Qyburn. Didn't get very far with it. There's not much straightforward text to glean. Still, I am interested in tying all these together. Asshai and the Citadel between those four are the big places and Dany is tied to to them also. Qyburn by association with Marwyn ,who is supposedly on his way to meet her, yet I think Dany will eventually meet up with the crazy old man. What's interesting is what Marwyn knows, some of it through the glass candle, and what he doesn't seem to know about or doesn't fret it. It being beyond the Wall. When I have some time to read up some more, I'll get back to this.
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Post by min on Aug 20, 2016 18:30:27 GMT
I'm thinking that Marwyn, Petyr and Euron make up the elements of Euron's sigil. Two carrion crows carrying a crown over the blood eye. When reading Sansa's chapters after Petyr absconds with her; he seems to have secret knowledge about things that are about to happen. I'm guessing he knows more about Euron's plans than we've been told. Petyr is consolidating his power now. Euron doesn't care for riches, lands or titles. He gives those away to his banner lords. I think Tyrion means to profit by it.
We know there is a connection between Marwyn and Qyburn and with glass candle capabilities; probably plenty of communication between the two. I suspect glass candles are being used to enter Cersei's dreams of the valonqar and drive her insane We have seen how Quaithe communicates with Dany; so not out of the question for both Petyr and Qyburn to be recieving intel from Marwyn. We also have the story of the dwarf maester serving at the Fingers.
It may be that Marwyn knows his lineage and Petyr's. This might account for Bran's dream of the twisted gargoyles who might once have lions stalking him down the tower. His fear that he overhead them whispering. Making Bran a danger to both Marwyn and Petyr and the necessity to get to safety beyond the wall.
The connection between Marwyn and Euron might come from his famous mapping expeditions; his familiarity with sailors and his ability to see the way across the sunset sea using a glass candle. Euron went with him to Asshai. Probably studied with him as MMD had done.
It seems to me that Euron and Marwyn might make one beast or demon between them.
In the HoU; Dany passes through the doors of the HoB&&W and sees a King, a Wizard, a Warrior and beautiful woman. Euron, Marwyn, UnGregor, Melisandre.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Aug 21, 2016 6:27:42 GMT
While he is short and stocky, Marwyn is never claimed to be a dwarf. I don't think the dwarf maester and Marwyn are the same person. Nevertheless, he is an interesting character. In Feast he has this to say,
He could be referring to his allegiances, his blood, or both in his untrustworthiness. Marwyn does not hold the grey sheep's outlook on what the Citadel's purpose is. Still, I wonder where he is from and if he has any blood ties to the East or to any of the old families of the West. Maester Aemon talks about needing to be with Dany since he is of the Targaryen blood...
When Sam arrives at the the Citadel Marwyn decides to go directly to Dany in Aemon's stead. Marwyn claims he needs to make the trip faster than the maester the Citadel will send. Is that the only reason to male such haste? Could it be that Marwyn has some Valyrian blood in his veins?
. . . Moving on with the obsidian - Marwyn claims to know most of what Sam is on about by peering across the sea; what it is that Sam told Alleras, the Sphinx, and that Sam's arrival should be met before he has the chance to speak to the other archmaesters. If you look at this statement from Marwyn, I think there is more to it than eavesdropping on Aemon and Sam.
Then, from Aemon, in the previous chapter of Sam,
Was Marwyn in Aemon's head during his last days?
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Post by min on Aug 21, 2016 9:53:47 GMT
While he is short and stocky, Marwyn is never claimed to be a dwarf. I don't think the dwarf maester and Marwyn are the same person. Nevertheless, he is an interesting character. In Feast he has this to say, Sam doesn't say dwarf; but then goes on to describe the characteristics of dwarfism in his face, head, hands, chest. He doesn't necessarily have to be as short as Tyrion. Less than 5 foot. Sam is what, less than 6 foot? Whose height do we know anything about specifically, besides Robert, the Mountain and Jaime. Marwyn wore a chain of many metals around his bull's neck. Save for that, he looked more like a dockside thug than a maester. His head was too big for his body, and the way it thrust forward from his shoulders; together with that slab of a jaw, made him look as if he was about to tear someone's head off. Though short and squat, he was heavy in the chest and shoulders, with a round rock-hard ale belly straining at the laces of the leather jerkin he wore in place of robes. Bristly white hair sprouted from his ears and nostrils. His brow beetled, his nose has been broken more than once, and sourleaf had stained his teeth a mottled red. He had the biggest hands that Sam had ever seen. A head too big for his body, short and squat, biggest hands Sam had ever seen. Sam is describing body parts out of proportion to each other. Here's a few descriptions from wikipedia: - Body is massive, thick-set, with short neck - The disproportionate nature of his dwarfism is apparent, along with a large forehead and a thick-set short trunk with long and thin extremities. - People of short stature were integrated in Egyptian society, with roles ... It is decorated with a medical scene in which a thick-set dwarf... Definition of squat: adjective adjective: squat; comparative adjective: squatter; superlative adjective: squattest 1. short and thickset; disproportionately broad or wide. "he was muscular and squat" synonyms: stocky, thickset, dumpy, stubby, stumpy, short, small; informal,vertically challenged "he was muscular and squat" I'm not sure that GRRM wants to give it away so easily. All Marwyn lacks is the label. Given Tyrion's short list of all the dwarves he has heard about; it doesn't seem all the common in Westeros. Has Sam ever seen a dwarf? Have the Starks? Not until Tyrion shows up.
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Post by min on Aug 21, 2016 10:32:35 GMT
Was Marwyn in Aemon's head during his last days? It's quite possible and likely that Marwyn has been using glass candles to spy out the realm. He's also very ambiguous in his response about the factions at the Citadel himself. Not unlike Petyr but without all the snark. Here's another oddity... Aemon dies and his body is stored in a vat of brine. If he departs and goes to the collect the books Aemon brought with him before heading off to advise Dany ; why didn't he take Aemon's body off the ship as well? Aemon shows up later in the hold of the Selaesori Qhoran; a corpse pickled in brine. How often would someone on ship be pickled in brine rather than buried at sea. The ship was bound for Qarth. I find that a bit suspicious with all the talk of dragon blood. Making the trip faster than normal might require conjuring a monstrous storm to fill your sails, the bar sinister. The bigger bastard brother creeping up behind Tyrion. What ship does Marwyn take if it isn't the Silence. We don't really know where Euron is at this point. But I don't believe he's sitting at home on the throne waiting for his ridiculous brother to collect Dany for him. If anything, Victarion will serve him as a distraction. Sam has seen Euron's sigil at Oldtown. If Aemon's corpse was sent to Qarth; could this be where Marwyn is heading meaning to collect it on arrival. To the House of Urrathon Nightwalker where the glass candles are burning according to Quaithe. Glass candles are useful according to Marwyn; and so would a hold full of wizards, sorcerers and priests for conjuring the big magic. Note the sigil for Urrathon IV Goodbrother. awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Urrathon_IV_Goodbrother
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