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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on May 13, 2016 19:57:00 GMT
Bran says that Jon and Rob are of an age. Meaning that they are close in age. They are both born in 283 AC. Is Jon older than Rob? Although I absolutely believe Jon is older than Robb by anywhere from 1-6 months, I also absolutely believe that George worked himself into a continuity problem with the ages of the boys. Catelyn believes Ned sired him on campaign after their marriage, which should make Robb older than Jon by at least a month. However, in the text, Jon's name day occurs earlier in the year than Robb's - like late summer (Augustish, if you want to use the Roman calendar) whereas Robb's is more like late fall (Octoberish). The only way this timing is possible is to have Jon being significantly younger than Robb, like nearly a year, but that isn't the case according to Cat's POV recollections and that "of an age" comment. So OK, maybe Jon was given a fake name day....fine and great, except that if this is supposed to be Ned's bastard son fathered out of his "needs" while off fighting the war, why the hell does he give him a name day that falls before that of his eldest son?Then, if you want to bring the SSM about Dany being 8-9 months younger than Jon into it, there is absolutely no way that Jon can be 8-9 months older than Dany and still be younger than Robb, unless we want to believe that extreme preemies were surviving in medieval times, because Robb is not even 8-9 months older than Dany. Thing is, you can discount Dany's birth story and leave her out of it completely, but still work backwards using known events of the war - Assault on Dragonstone, lifting of the siege at SE, etc - to get an idea of approximately when things happened....and still, none of it works out. I have gone over this timeline with a fine-toothed comb and have come to the conclusion that this is a GRRM-centric plot hole that has no resolution. IMO fans are just going to have to suspend disbelief or accept "I goofed" when the final reveal happens, because he wrote an unsolvable problem.
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Post by Melifeather on May 13, 2016 20:02:41 GMT
To solve the problem wouldn't Jon just have to be the eldest? Lets keep the August birthday and Robb the October, which would put Dany at April-ish?
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Post by min on May 13, 2016 20:38:13 GMT
Bran says that Jon and Rob are of an age. Meaning that they are close in age. They are both born in 283 AC. Is Jon older than Rob? Although I absolutely believe Jon is older than Robb by anywhere from 1-6 months, I also absolutely believe that George worked himself into a continuity problem with the ages of the boys. Catelyn believes Ned sired him on campaign after their marriage, which should make Robb older than Jon by at least a month. However, in the text, Jon's name day occurs earlier in the year than Robb's - like late summer (Augustish, if you want to use the Roman calendar) whereas Robb's is more like late fall (Octoberish). The only way this timing is possible is to have Jon being significantly younger than Robb, like nearly a year, but that isn't the case according to Cat's POV recollections and that "of an age" comment. So OK, maybe Jon was given a fake name day....fine and great, except that if this is supposed to be Ned's bastard son fathered out of his "needs" while off fighting the war, why the hell does he give him a name day that falls before that of his eldest son?Then, if you want to bring the SSM about Dany being 8-9 months younger than Jon into it, there is absolutely no way that Jon can be 8-9 months older than Dany and still be younger than Robb, unless we want to believe that extreme preemies were surviving in medieval times, because Robb is not even 8-9 months older than Dany. Thing is, you can discount Dany's birth story and leave her out of it completely, but still work backwards using known events of the war - Assault on Dragonstone, lifting of the siege at SE, etc - to get an idea of approximately when things happened....and still, none of it works out. I have gone over this timeline with a fine-toothed comb and have come to the conclusion that this is a GRRM-centric plot hole that has no resolution. IMO fans are just going to have to suspend disbelief or accept "I goofed" when the final reveal happens, because he wrote an unsolvable problem. As far as Catelyn's knowledge; I read it that she supposed that Jon was born on campaign because this is what men do. An extension of the gossip she heard. I thinks it's another feint like Wylla and Cat really doesn't know. She didn't know much about Ned when she married him. There is Ned's reaction when she questions him about it and actually makes her take a pledge of obedience not to speak of it again. That's the only time she ever felt threatened by him. I think Ashara became pregnant at the tourney when she turned to "Stark" and he was smitten. He may have been too shy to ask her to dance; but Dornish customs; who knows. Ned tells the small lies or he refrains from speaking or lies by omission. Why, because he is pledged to protect, something he learned at the Eyrie with personal significance. That's a strong theme throughout his character arc. Robert brings up the pledge to protect when he talks about fostering children and Jon Arryn would rather rebel than break his pledge. If there is an inversion; then Lyanna should have produced a living boy and loses her life in a blood ritual. I contend that the Starks are royal blood and she was fully prepared to give her life for Rhaegar. That means that RLfA is in play and Ned is pledged to protect both boys. A living son of Rhaegar would have to go into hiding across the narrow sea. The same suggestion Ned makes to Cersei. When Lemore tells Tyrion that Aegon dies his hair blue to honor his mother; she isn't talking about Elia. Ashara must also disappear so her death is another feint. Ashara gives her son to Ned and takes Lyanna's child. Promises and secrets to keep for all the children. As Lemore tells Aegon, he isn't the only one who has to hide. At least it works for me at this point if nobody else. ETA: I go with GRRM's statement that there are deliberate falsehoods in tWoIaF and I suspect the same of aSoIaF.
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Post by Melifeather on May 13, 2016 20:49:43 GMT
I think Ashara became pregnant at the tourney when she turned to "Stark" and he was smitten. He may have been too shy to ask her to dance; but Dornish customs; who knows. I took that to mean that Ashara had already been dishonored and turned to Ned for help.
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Post by min on May 13, 2016 21:16:01 GMT
I think Ashara became pregnant at the tourney when she turned to "Stark" and he was smitten. He may have been too shy to ask her to dance; but Dornish customs; who knows. I took that to mean that Ashara had already been dishonored and turned to Ned for help. Yup, I do not know. Would she go to Ned if she was dishonored by Bran Sr? But BAJ is a possibility. I'm not sure what Barristan meant when he said that if he had won the tourney; she would have turned to him instead of Stark. Would all the girls be in love with the one who unseated Rhaegar? I just presume that he is thinking about the current Stark.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on May 31, 2016 2:03:33 GMT
Random. Does anyone know who might have been a prominent sellsword during the Rebellion? How old is Bronn? Also, late to the party but: I'm not sure what Barristan meant when he said that if he had won the tourney; she would have turned to him instead of Stark. My personal headcanon is that upon the Harrenhal crowning, Ashara looked to Lyanna Stark. Everyone assumes that she turned to a Stark man, but I don't think that was the case. Barristan thinks she would have looked to him had he been the victor, but instead, Rhaegar won....but she didn't look to Rhaegar, she looked to Stark. The only Stark that was victorious at Harrenhal was Lyanna, as the QoLaB.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 23:14:35 GMT
Random. Does anyone know who might have been a prominent sellsword during the Rebellion? How old is Bronn? Also, late 8to the party but: I'm not sure what Barristan meant when he said that if he had won the tourney; she would have turned to him instead of Stark. My personal headcanon is that upon the Harrenhal crowning, Ashara looked to Lyanna Stark. Everyone assumes that she turned to a Stark man, but I don't think that was the case. Barristan thinks she would have looked to him had he been the victor, but instead, Rhaegar won....but she didn't look to Rhaegar, she looked to Stark. The only Stark that was victorious at Harrenhal was Lyanna, as the QoLaB. Was any back story given for Bronn at all?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 2, 2016 23:59:12 GMT
Was any back story given for Bronn at all? Not really. Tyrion asked him of his past history and whereabouts, but the answer was "Here and there, lots of places, you know...*shrug*" Nothing of substance, which immediately makes me wonder.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 0:07:45 GMT
Was any back story given for Bronn at all? Not really. Tyrion asked him of his past history and whereabouts, but the answer was "Here and there, lots of places, you know...*shrug*" Nothing of substance, which immediately makes me wonder. A former lord on the wrong side of the war?
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Post by Weasel Pie on Jun 3, 2016 1:48:29 GMT
Random. Does anyone know who might have been a prominent sellsword during the Rebellion? How old is Bronn? Also, late 8to the party but: My personal headcanon is that upon the Harrenhal crowning, Ashara looked to Lyanna Stark. Everyone assumes that she turned to a Stark man, but I don't think that was the case. Barristan thinks she would have looked to him had he been the victor, but instead, Rhaegar won....but she didn't look to Rhaegar, she looked to Stark. The only Stark that was victorious at Harrenhal was Lyanna, as the QoLaB. Was any back story given for Bronn at all? not much except that he'd possibly been beyond the wall?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Jun 3, 2016 3:01:36 GMT
I asked that question for a reason and now I can't remember what it was. Someone posted a quote at the W that had to do with Gerold Hightower and sellswords, and I remembered the passage where Tyrion entrusts Tommen to the Gold Cloaks rather than Bronn because Tommen would have worse luck with a man paid to be loyal....and then I forgot where I was going in my head with that info. Oh well. Other than Bronn, I can only think of the companies in Essos. The Tattered Prince and Miles Toyne are standout contenders.
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Post by alienarea on Jun 5, 2016 12:12:41 GMT
To solve the problem wouldn't Jon just have to be the eldest? Lets keep the August birthday and Robb the October, which would put Dany at April-ish? YES. That would also fit better with R+L, B+A, N+A, ... The plot is not only weak, but lacks in editing.
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Post by min on Jul 17, 2016 9:52:13 GMT
Does anyone recall Melisandre saying that R'Hllor has claws? I know I came across this statement at one point but I can't find it.
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Post by Maester Flagons on Jul 18, 2016 21:05:05 GMT
Does anyone recall Melisandre saying that R'Hllor has claws? I know I came across this statement at one point but I can't find it. Don't recall that. The only thing I can think of is the Fiery Hand.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Jul 18, 2016 21:32:52 GMT
I can't remember that either min. Sorry.
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