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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 20, 2016 1:30:09 GMT
IKR??? I was checking the Wiki for Westeros events in 268 - actually hoping I could link his birth to maybe one of Rhaella's deceased kids, but zip on that. Then I looked at 267 and saw Tytos' death listed...and I remembered he had a mistress...and then OH MY GOD it was right there. Or Tywin could have raped her and Petyr is his son? I don't think so....doing the deed himself isn't Tywin's style, and the tale is that no one touched her...the walk of shame was enough, it didn't need to be compounded by a Lannister-sanctioned rape. It could have happened, this incident could have been the beta for the later episode with Tyrion, but there's nothing to indicate it. Yet.
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Post by min on Aug 20, 2016 8:52:12 GMT
I don't think so....doing the deed himself isn't Tywin's style, and the tale is that no one touched her...the walk of shame was enough, it didn't need to be compounded by a Lannister-sanctioned rape. It could have happened, this incident could have been the beta for the later episode with Tyrion, but there's nothing to indicate it. Yet. Still works for me. Heh, little brother...valonqar.... blood oranges, from Dorne.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 20, 2016 13:08:46 GMT
little brother...valonqar. oh my god. I freaking love this.
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Post by min on Aug 20, 2016 13:28:30 GMT
Oh my. The entire time he's eating a blood orange. "Lord Petyr cut the blood orange in two with his dagger... He tilted his chin back and squeezed the blood orange, so the juice ran down into his mouth. " I love the juice but I loathe the sticky fingers," he complained, wiping his hands. "Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean." He split the "fruit" in two and drank the blood without getting his hands dirty. Blood oranges, or even oranges in general symbolize betrayal and mistrust. They can also symbolize female genitals, and the "splitting" of the orange is highly suggestive. Do they also represent breasts? Cersei dreamt that she was down in the black cells once again, only this time it was her chained to the wall in place of the singer. She was naked, and blood dripped from the tips of her breasts where the Imp had torn off her nipples with his teeth. "Please," she begged, "Please, not my children, do not harm my children." Tyrion only leered at her. He was naked too, covered with coarse hair that made him look more like a monkey than a man. "You shall see them crowned," he said, "and you shall see them die." Then he took her bleeding breast into his mouth and began to suck, and pain sawed through her like a hot knife.
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 20, 2016 17:35:51 GMT
I think Marwyn is a bastard son of Tywin as well as Petyr. For me it seems as though Petyr is only looking out for himself. It makes me wonder if he would have a higher goal in mind such as a restoration of the Targs or maybe a breakdown of the 7 kingdoms into smaller kingdoms. To quote another series, "some men just want to see the world burn." I agree that there is something much more important going on with Petyr. It would for sure be very interesting if he did have these motivations due to revenge for his family. I am trying to ferret out a Targ connection - AND a Reyne connection, or some other family that might have a grudge against the Lannisters. Guys...I had a brain moment. We've been talking about Petyr possbily being a last Reyne - giving him plenty of motivation to take down the Lannisters - but the timeline doesn't fit for his birth in 268. BUT. Consider this, "this" being all the stuff below that I'm blatantly copying from the Wiki. " Tytos Lannister's mistress was a lowborn woman that Lord Tytos Lannister took for his bedwarmer after his wife Jeyne Marbrand's passing, a few years before he died. Her name is unknown. Lord Tytos's comely mistress was a commonborn woman, the daughter of a candlemaker. Tytos soon began seating her beside him in the hall and showering her with gifts and honors, even asking her views on matters of state. She helped herself to Tytos's deceased wife's jewels and clothes. She also began ordering about the household knights, dismissed servants and sat in attendance when Tytos was absent. She grew so influential that it was said about Lannisport that any man who wished for his petition to be heard should kneel before her and speak loudly to her lap … for Lord Tytos's ear was between his lady's legs. In 267 AC, Lord Tytos died of a heart attack while climbing stairs to see her. The first thing his heir Tywin Lannister did on his ascension was to expel his father’s grasping lowborn mistress from Casterly Rock. All the self-seekers who had named themselves her friends and cultivated her favor abandoned her. The silks and velvets Tytos had lavished on her and the jewelry she had taken for herself was stripped from her. Tywin had her stripped and sent forth naked to walk through the streets of Lannisport to the docks, so the west could see her for what she was. Though no man laid a hand on her, that walk spelled the end of her power." " Vain and proud she was, before ... so haughty you'd think she'd forgot she came from dirt. Once we got her clothes off her, though, she was just another whore.” – guard of House Lannister Tytos died in 267 in the middle of their affair. Petyr is born in 268. If Tytos' death was toward the latter half of the year and his mistress was newly pregnant at the time of her walk of shame...and that mistress fled to another part of Westeros, like, for example, the port city of Gulltown where Baelish says Alayne Stone's mother died giving birth to her... Petyr could be TYWIN'S HALF BROTHER. I think this makes a lot of sense, but how do you explain his father?
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 20, 2016 17:37:53 GMT
Blood oranges, or even oranges in general symbolize betrayal and mistrust. They can also symbolize female genitals, and the "splitting" of the orange is highly suggestive. Do they also represent breasts? Cersei dreamt that she was down in the black cells once again, only this time it was her chained to the wall in place of the singer. She was naked, and blood dripped from the tips of her breasts where the Imp had torn off her nipples with his teeth. "Please," she begged, "Please, not my children, do not harm my children." Tyrion only leered at her. He was naked too, covered with coarse hair that made him look more like a monkey than a man. "You shall see them crowned," he said, "and you shall see them die." Then he took her bleeding breast into his mouth and began to suck, and pain sawed through her like a hot knife.Oranges have sections and it's the visual of the separated sections that look like labia.
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Post by min on Aug 20, 2016 18:14:35 GMT
I think this makes a lot of sense, but how do you explain his father? It's Genna Lannister's comment to Jaime, that gives it away: Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak... but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Tywin won't acknowledge that Tyrion is his son although he knows that Jaime and Cersei are not his. He despises Tyrion for deformity and how that reflects on him. All of the family talk is about who Twyin fathered and he would rather have beautiful children that can be used to promote the family fortune than a dwarf that people mock. He hates Tyrion all the more because he has already produced another child with dwarfism. Mar-wyn by a whore. His sister Genna knows this about him which is why she insists that Tyrion is Tywin's son. And when confronted; why Tywin wouldn't speak to her for 6 months. It also explains why he hates whores to so much. Tywin can't produce a normal child. "Dwarfs are all bastards in their father's eyes." - Tyrion to Jon Snow.
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Post by Ser Duncan on Aug 20, 2016 18:23:48 GMT
I think this makes a lot of sense, but how do you explain his father? I can't speak for how SP will answer this, but to my mind I can see it happening like this... This woman may have lost all power during her walk of shame, but that does not mean she didn't have any sympathisers. The folks that allied with her were turned out as well, so someone could've got her to Braavos where she came in contact with another man of power. He takes her on and there you have Petyr's father's story.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 20, 2016 19:17:14 GMT
I think this makes a lot of sense, but how do you explain his father? If I'm understanding your question correctly, I think Lord Baelish - whoever he is - took in Petyr's mother after she was kicked out of Casterly Rock, and raised Petyr as his own son....for a time, until he saw an opportunity to foist him onto Hoster Tully. There are many ways for this to happen, such as the one Ser Duncan laid out above, or even her turning to prostitution at a port city and meeting Lord Baelish there, but in any event I think Lord Baelish may be Petyr's adoptive father...hiding the bastard of a powerful lord in plain sight. Gee, where have we heard that before. But, total conjecture. Now that I'm on this train of thought, though, I'm going back through Littlefinger dealings and upon review it seems clear that he is doing everything possible to slowly remove Lannister claimants to Casterly Rock. I need to do a close study of the sequence of events but he is most certainly working to eradicate any chance of Tywin's line taking Casterly Rock. Upon cursory glance it's very possible that his acquisitions of such titles as Lord Paramount of the Trident and Lord Protector of the Vale were only the first steps to achieve more power via marriage alliances - eventually, if he can move all the pieces correctly on the cyvasse board, he could end up with multiple Wardenships and eventually the Iron Throne.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 20, 2016 20:18:33 GMT
Heh, little brother...valonqar.... Getting back to this, an idea that I also love... "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." If Petyr is Tytos' bastard son, then obviously that makes him Tywin's little brother. Throughout the series thus far, Littlefinger has been using Cersei as a pawn in his game; he even comments that he didn't think she would cause things to devolve quite so fast and that she's actually exceeded his expectations for screwing things up. I think it stands to reason that once he is through using her for his own purposes, he will completely and utterly destroy her - which makes me wonder if the prophecy above isn't meant to be literal..as in, the valonqar will not physically kill her; "choke the life from you" means an increasingly tighter hold on Cersei's "life"... which is, of course, her standing, her rule, her crown - until she is totally "choked out" of power. Littlefinger has the innate ability to squeeze the blood from the orange and drink the juice while keeping his hands clean; perhaps he will squeeze the blood from Cersei - and the Lannister legacy - as well.
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Post by min on Aug 20, 2016 23:37:43 GMT
Heh, little brother...valonqar.... Getting back to this, an idea that I also love... "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." If Petyr is Tytos' bastard son, then obviously that makes him Tywin's little brother. Throughout the series thus far, Littlefinger has been using Cersei as a pawn in his game; he even comments that he didn't think she would cause things to devolve quite so fast and that she's actually exceeded his expectations for screwing things up. I think it stands to reason that once he is through using her for his own purposes, he will completely and utterly destroy her - which makes me wonder if the prophecy above isn't meant to be literal..as in, the valonqar will not physically kill her; "choke the life from you" means an increasingly tighter hold on Cersei's "life"... which is, of course, her standing, her rule, her crown - until she is totally "choked out" of power. Littlefinger has the innate ability to squeeze the blood from the orange and drink the juice while keeping his hands clean; perhaps he will squeeze the blood from Cersei - and the Lannister legacy - as well. Yes! But before she dies... horribly in the black cells; he'll let her know it was him all along. Just like he did with Lysa. He has to gloat; just like he did with Sansa about Joffrey.
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 21, 2016 5:26:46 GMT
Anyhoo, re: Brandon and his errand. Brandon LEFT RIVERRUN after the duel with PB. Why the heck was he there? We have no idea. Then, after he fillets Littlefinger, he leaves Cat for this mystery errand and vows to BRB. K. Brandon, en route back to Riverrun, "heard about Lyanna"...and goes hell bent for leather WITH HIS POSSE OF VALEMEN - Kyle Royce, Elbert Arryn, and Jeffory Mallister - toward King's Landing. Brandon's errand took him to the Vale. From Riverrun. Brandon hears about Lyanna on his way back to Riverrun. Putting this here as I don't have another place to dump it at the moment. Re: Jon Arryn/Hoster using Brandon as errand boy: “The first time I saw Riverrun, I was a squire green as summer grass,” Jaime told his cousin. “ Old Sumner Crakehall sent me to deliver a message, one he swore could not be entrusted to a raven. Lord Hoster kept me for a fortnight whilst mulling his reply, and sat me beside his daughter Lysa at every meal.” -AFFC 33, Jaime
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Post by Melifeather on Aug 21, 2016 12:40:10 GMT
When Jaime was sent to Riverrun and was set next to Lysa, it seems implied the letter was the marriage proposal, no? Ser Crakehall had Jaime relay the message, because Tywin didn't want anyone to know he was part of the alliance.
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Post by Weasel Pie on Aug 21, 2016 13:43:34 GMT
Throwing this in.
The seat of House Baelish is disparagingly called The Drearfort.
In a world of mirrors and inversions and opposites, what would be the opposite name for a Dreary Fort? Hrm. Maybe... the Happy Tower? The Joyous Fort? I dunno. Something like that.
And what's with the broken sword?
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Post by Some Pig No Doubt on Aug 21, 2016 14:22:02 GMT
This reminds me...have I mentioned that one of the major Marvel bad guys from the hippie era is none other than Thanos, the Mad Titan? I'll be getting to him...one day. Thanos: House Baelish: LOLOLOLOL
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